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EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo

 Post subject: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 4:50 pm 
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The rules for these indicate they can target aircraft...”A Gravetic Tracer Salvo may be fired at a marked formation of any type”.

Rules for marker lights state “All enemy formations with at least....”.

Have I understood this correctly?

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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 6:16 pm 
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No, you can't use markerlights on aircraft, so they're not a valid target for the missiles.


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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Mon Jan 18, 2021 7:08 pm 
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GlynG wrote:
No, you can't use markerlights on aircraft, so they're not a valid target for the missiles.


Not meaning to be obtuse but where does it say that? The rules say ALL enemy formations in range are marked. The author also goes on to describe how the rules interact with markerlit aircraft (there is no benefit).


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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Tue Jan 19, 2021 3:47 am 
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Knowing nothing about how any of these things actually work, it sounds to me like sloppy rules with unintended consquences.

"Markerlights affect everything in range."

"What about aircraft?"

"Sure, why not, there's no benefit in marking them, so we'll just say they're marked as well. We can even add a pithy comment to that effect."

Then someone makes another weapon that interacts with markerlights, not realising they need to include special rules to close the loophole that should never have been there.


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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:43 pm 
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RugII wrote:
The rules for these indicate they can target aircraft...”A Gravetic Tracer Salvo may be fired at a marked formation of any type”.

Rules for marker lights state “All enemy formations with at least....”.

Have I understood this correctly?

Thanks


Rug,

I'd say the GTS cannot be used on aircraft, but not because of the writing of the Guided Missile rule. I'm relying on the fact that attacks on aircraft typically require AA to be included in their stat line. Other types of GM are not automatically gifted the ability to fire at aircraft.

I agree with Sable that this could use clarification in the text since this is differentiated from a regular GM because its fired by a Spacecraft v ground unit. But in that vein, the point point attack is not automatically gifted AA because its fired from a spacecraft.

Since I don't recall this specific issue coming up in the Tau 3rd Sphere develop threads, I'll confirm with Dave as the Rules Chair.

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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:55 am 
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RugII wrote:
GlynG wrote:
No, you can't use markerlights on aircraft, so they're not a valid target for the missiles.


Not meaning to be obtuse but where does it say that? The rules say ALL enemy formations in range are marked. The author also goes on to describe how the rules interact with markerlit aircraft (there is no benefit).

Yeah it's not so much as you can't mark aircraft but that you cannot gain +1 against them. If theoretically there were an AA weapon with guided missiles, it would still be able to shoot at marked aircraft but wouldn't gain +1.

However the gravitic tracer salvo notes don't read to me as referencing aircraft at all, seems fairly clear to me that it's saying it can fire at regular units, not only war engines like pinpoint attacks. I agree with gunslinger the question still technically stands though because the pinpoint rules don't actually say they cannot attack aircraft either, and it's not actually a pinpoint attack anyway. However I think it's a big stretch to assume they can target aircraft just through omission of text specifically saying they can't. The orbital bombardment rules dont say either, but surely nobody thinks you should be able to barrage an aircraft from space? The rules are designed so that later rules are applied on top of the ones defined before them, so unless there is something to the contrary then the normal hit allocation rules apply - only AA attacks can hit aircraft.

To me if it were intended to be able to hit aircraft it'dhave a statline like the Fist of Gork:
MW5+/AA5+ Macro Weapon

It doesn't, it has a regular MW statline so one has to assume it can hit things that a MW attack can hit: infantry and vehicles.

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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:24 am 
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I'm fairly certain the GTS note was added by EpicUK Jon so the pinpoint could be used against non-WE units, it wasn't intended to be used against aircraft (there's no AA value after all, and MW firepower can hit AC).

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 Post subject: Re: EUK Gravitic Missile Salvo
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:00 am 
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As a convention we have only used marker lights on ground based units in tournaments and I would continue this in the future.

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