Corran_dk wrote:
Very interesting finally a reason to paint up my 2 last Mantas

This is exactly my motivation. At this stage my "true scale" [1:3000] Explorer Class vessel and the three Mantas [1:300] are all painted up ready for battle. Thought I'd try some advance warning before springing them on Mark.
jimmyzimms wrote:
Considering they've got not-titans with the riptide and other big walkers now it seems off to not use them in the "Tau Titan List", no? This seems more a 4th sphere expansion theme. 2cents
The Riptide, Stormsurge and Supremacy Suits are all DC2 and DC3 walkers. To my mind they are more Knight class than Titan class war-engines. Also the fluff suggests that by preference Mantas would not be deployed in frontline action against full size titans, so where they are available the Tau "Titan-Killer" walkers would be in the front line and the Mantas somewhere else out of the firing line. You can have a Manta [or even two at 4000 points] within the Vior'la list as it stands, along with lots of Riptides et al. So I'd perhaps best just remove the "Tau Titan List" subtitle tag.
Any of the nth sphere expansions would fit the theme. Hopefully labelling it as a 4th sphere expansion theme would not just lead to it disappearing off into a warp rift - never to be heard of again, . . .
atension wrote:
Looks interesting though Mantas rarely steal the show utility wise, and you might find the list a little underpowered as tau tend to normally function best with high activation count lists.
Most of the times I have deployed Mantas they have been somewhat smashed up, and not just because they have encountered lots of TK and MW firepower. It is good to see some consensus that they will likely be underpowered as a force - as a starting point. The slight points drop [to 625] and perhaps giving all of them Coordinate Fire therefore seems reasonable.
atension wrote:
How will they be allowed to deploy? Set up as per usual, planet fall or self planetfall? Is planet fall a manditory set up type for the list? Sounds like you want this to be an invasion force so likely planet fall or self planetfall?
An invasion force theme could also be delivering more troops into a beach-head [planet-head, surface-head, ground-head]. I had thought of adding restrictions about garrisoning and so forth but thought one restriction [total lift capacity] was enough. Given the comment about functioning best with high activation counts AND the fluff associated with strategic redeployment of forces from region to region AND the fact that Mantas have a limited warp-drive/skip capacity, THEN giving Mantas in this list Self-Planetfall might be an interesting addition.
atension wrote:
Some things to consider if you decide to make a list around a Manta invasion drop force. Tau generally suck bad in close as is their nature and a drop force by nature is to bring stuff in close. It'll need something extra to make it playable. The mantas will work well in close as engagement support or instigators but clipping assaults and other titans will tear you apart if you space out a bit. Barrage will be devastating if you pack in close.
I have tried some two Manta forces [at 4000 points] sometimes with a larger BTS on the ground and readily recognise the problems you highlight. My fairly frequent losses with a single Manta developed because I did not just try and hide the thing. Hard to do with a support craft always popped up and somewhat of a waste of points! They are pretty robust as battle taxis for a round or two of heavy incoming fire (including barrages) and then you can get troops out on one of the double moves when they break, if you need to. So keeping some troops in them helps mitigate against clipping attacks. I am wondering whether having more and being able to support them with air-landing assets might help, . . .
Any ideas on something more to make them playable?
(1) Points drop to 625 points
(2) Command Bridge (reroll initiative once per turn, Coordinated Fire)
(3) Coordinated Fire for all Mantas
(4) Self-planetfall
(5) Withdrawing to orbit/air-reserve when/if they break, move once and drop troops, then to orbit on the second break move, to return after they recover (after a delay). Say broken T1, self-planetfall back on T3. If they don't come back then the most expensive formation on the table counts as BTS as per normal rules.