Matt, I'm not sure if this has been brought up but is it intentional not to allow an upgraded FW formation access to an Orca? As the upgrade is 6 it puts them at 14 units which won't fit. Am I missing something here?
Also, no bonded teams for FW leaders? Once you place a Shas O that's it for leadership or is the Cadre Fireblade missing Leader in its stats?

The Orca and Moray both have Burst Cannons but the Orca has Twinned cannons, however both have the same stat line. Shouldn't twin weapons be +1 to hit?

While we're at it, the 'stats' link points to the army list, and the other link to the stats file (o:

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There's an updated version due to go up in a few days. In the meantime



The larger firewarrior formations are on purpose, and yes it does mean it's too large to fit the Orca. If you do want a larger formation in an orca, you could take the base 8 FW (225) and add 3 Pathfinders (100). That would give you an effective drop-and-shoot unit, although less of an air-assault unit.

Air assault was not supposed to be a strength of the list (I was asked to keep it that way) but you may note that the Cadre Fireblade upgrade would apply to the Pathfinders as well as the FW, so the unit does have some versatlity.

Cadre Fireblade is not missing Leader unintentionally; do you not think that if it had Leader it would become a no-brainer upgrade? The idea was to keep it cheap at 25pts and make it something players would have to weigh the pros and cons of. Opinions welcome.

The Orca has Twin Burst cannons at AA6+, which matches the stats in the Tau Third Phase Expansion force. I'll update the Manta to match version 6.6 of the approved list, so it will be that unit that gets changed rather than the Orca (6.6 has 4x Twin Mata Burst Cannons at AP5+/AA6+).

New version with updates coming soon.



Crisis will get Commander back
Correct about the Pathfinders. To make that clearer, I will remove DF from the PF upgrade, so if players want to add more DF they know they have to do so by adding it in the form of 'Add Two Pathfinders and one Devilfish', rather than by themselves.

And btw Parintachin thanks very much for keeping that army builder up to date. I am sure it's a lot of work, but it's definitely appreciated!

Thanks (o:

In reality, unless the list changes a lot, it's about half an hour of adjusting settings per list; one of the beauties of Adam's work is that it's actually very easy to work lists into.

Do you plan to include the changes from yme-loc's 6.71.2 too?

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I'm not sure if it's super different to add PFs than FWs (apart from 1 unit) if they'd all get 4+ FF anyway. It's still the "air assault" formation - which BTW is a nice variation to the "shoot but not shoot enough to finish things off" design. I've never used my Orca as an Orca! OK, will give this a try. I like to add PFs to my FWs anyway so thanks for pointing out the CFB for PFs as I had missed that.


I'm not sure why the Vior'la Tau would have less leaders available than the Third phase. Another 25 point upgrade for a leader or putting it together for 50 would be fine by me. Plus 25 or 50 points still requires you to weigh the pros and cons - even more so at 50 but that would be player's choice. I know I'd take it, so my troops aren't engagement bait (always retaining 1 BM) for the majority of the game.

Really looking forward to trying out the Riptides too.

Thanks Matt

The list has been updated to Developmental Version 1.2

The changes are a combination of results of about a dozen more playtests, feedback on TacComm, and a list of changes made to standardise with the changes Yme-Loc has made to the Tau primary list in the meantime.
Most are pretty minor, which means the list is pretty stable, and I hope to get it signed off soon.




Remaining:
We've been playtesting the Manta at 625pts, which is the cost I've used in this update. This allows space for some airsupport (notably 375 for titan killer AX-10) and has proven popular with the players who use these (I don't, personally) to the point where we actually had a Manta vs Manta matchup in one of the local tournaments - I've never heard of such a thing
No opponent has thought them over-powered at that cost, so I'd like to recommend to Yme-Loc we try this for the main list. I don't think it's brilliant at even at that price point, but it's been terrific to see the models out of the cases and in play.



As always, feedback is welcome! thanks.

Nice!
Really like the broadside change. Might actually see me using them again.

noticed a few minor things.

The railhead has the armour penetrator rule in the units notes. Which means all weapons benefit from the rule. I know this is not intended and it should be moved to the firepower column.

It seems strange that the strike fighter and the sun shark bomber while sharing rules/armour in 40k have such big difference i their save. I think a bomber can be alowed to have a somewhat higher save than a fighter, but going from save "-" to "4+" seems odd.

ArmyForge file updated, will be upgraded next time Adam pushes the button.
Also, fixed a bug with the pathfinder group and a slew of points adjustments.

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Thanks Parintachin



I'll update the placement of the 'armour penetrator' text for clarity, thanks for noting it. The standard Tau barracuda fighter has 6+. The Razorshark has - for differentiation to represent an extremely light fighter; that would be the stat most likely to change if any, but it hasn't been getting enough use to generate much feedback.

Notes on Viorla (1.2) comparison with 3rd Phase Expansion (6.71.2)

Manta stats are 3 x Seeker Missiles for (6.71.2) rather than 2 x (1.2)
I like the recommended price drop to 625 pts (partly because I’ve finally made one), compared to 675 pts in (6.71.2). It puts severe restrictions on the other air assets you can take, and the Manta is not really air, but more so that other titans I'll grant you. However there are also slight differences between the two lists, eg could only planet-fall with only a Manta in (1.2) whereas the Custodian in (6.71.2) has space for the Manta and lots of Orcas.

Orcas are lovely. At 150 points they make for a fun “spam” force. Dropzone commander anybody? How would you feel about putting the Deflector Shield onto the (6.71.2) bird/fish for 150 pts, as for (1.2)?

AX-1-0 on the (6.71.2) list has 2 seeker missiles, compared to 1 on (1.2).

Armour Penetrator on weapon for Hammerhead Railgun, already mentioned.

Points drop on the Broadsides in (6.71.2) came with a drop in range for the railguns to 60 cm. Lighter versions than the Hammerhead ones. (1.2) still shows as 75 cm.

I got excited about the FF 4+ on the Stealth Suits in the Viorla list (1.2). This seemed entirely in keeping with their heavy burst cannons. However was it a mistake? The Stealth Suits in (6.71.2) have their own boost with re-rolling BMs when teleporting. Be nice if the two lists meshed? Or maybe celebrate the difference.

The old Shas’el under (6.6) used to have his own plasma rifle. I see that that has gone from both (1.2) and (6.71.2) and that is fine by me. Certainly lets you more seamlessly add one to a Riptide. Thanks for making them free with the Crisis Suits, makes that Init 1+ just that bit more useful, and the elite of the Tau capable of leading/coordinating.

Noticed that the “loop-hole”(?) of adding a Shas’o to a Crisis Suit Cadre with a Shas’el as well has been removed from the (6.71.2) list; d’rat that. Two Leader units was perhaps a little overboard for such a small formation?

The Ethereal remains different in the two lists – obviously different characters!! In (1.2) the xeno has Inspiring (leads from the front?) as well, but the formation breaks if he dies. Ethereal “6.71.2” is not so inspiring but then the Fire Warriors aren’t so concerned if he dies, just 1 BM!!

Back to fighting with Tau 6.6 this weekend to help playtest the Black Templars.

I've discussed this with Yme-Loc, and we've agreed that it can be changed to 650pt in both lists and run from there. It does mean no AX-10s in the same list for 300pt games, but it's a compromise likely to make the Manta just that bit more appealing.



I highly recommend this. They remain a weak and under-armed transport compared to their peers from other races, but at least a bit less likely to spill their expensive cargo over the battlefield. You can still see this happen plenty of times in my battle reports though even with deflector



I will update both to match. I don't think I've tried the 60cm railguns yet, what has feedback been like?



They will be changed to match the latest parent list version; the stealth suits are not intended to be superior. I need to find out if the reroll of a BM is now one per stand or per formation.



Dropping the plasma rifle and adding them to Crisis by default was Yme-Loc's idea, and a great one. Riptides are essentially super-crisis suits, so that made including them easier. Note the price has increased though.



Correct, and time it is a conscious case of 'vive la différence'. I'd like the majority of the list to be standardised, but the Firewarriors and their Ethereal are a key point of differentiation. My advice is don't let the Vior'la Ethereal die

Stealth re roll is per stand. i.e. just roll 6 (or dice and re-roll any 1's

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Got a play test in with Vior'la 1.2. TacCom Address
Hope that it is useful. Actual Report

I have a fair number of comments as footnotes at the end of my fluff account (end of actual report).

Few extra notes here re the army list.

The list currently has the spacecraft at 200 points. This is now 25 points less than the 6.7.2 test version. Will this move do you think? There was some discussion about: Spacecraft [225], Manta [650] and Barracudas [150] being deliberately over the 1/3 limit for a 3000 points (typical) tournament army.

I liked the two Manta option [2 x 650 < 1/3 of 4000 points!!] combined with a seriously strengthened Fire Warrior BTS. It certainly made for aggressive Manta use!! The limit of only 3 upgrades on the regular Tau list (and many others) has been dropped. Given the usual need for activation advantage with Tau (to use coord fire, get crossfire, patient hunter thing) I see no problem with this.

I used the 300 point Broadsides with 60 cm range on their railguns. Seemed ok. Did led me to (once again) clump them whilst trying to get long range shots, which was punished with Guard artillery fire. I have succumbed to the same problem with the previous longer ranged versions so my problem not the lists!!

How is the list sitting with respect to seeking approved status? How many more games needed? And how many from different groups? (Same question for Tau 6.7.2 in the other topic).

Thanks Andrew, the battle report is fantastic! Looks like a great game.
It's hard to believe those are laser cut Mantas.





I'll have a look at it. As much as possible the prices are standardised with Tau (approved) unless there's a reason for them not to be.



I like the manta price too. The battlereport mentions it has the same DC as a Warlord, which is true, but it's also only 5+ Reinforced and comes without void shields so has been a really rare choice. It started getting used locally at an experimental 625 price, and then has been adjusted up to 650 which YmeLoc has agreed to set the main Tau list's cost to as well. It's a tiny change really, and the key reason for 625 was to allow players to also fit the AX-10s that over here in Australia are almost seen as obligatory. Still, even the 25pt discount seems to have helped.

The Firewarriors don't have an upgrade limit, that's correct. As you noted, they also have less upgrades available. I don't think I've seen anyone spend over 400pts on the formation before, so your report was unique in that.



I'm not a huge fan of the drop from 75 to 60cm on these slow moving units, and since the change have preferred to use Hammerheads. Broadsides were just changed to standardise with the main list. If they change back I'll do the same but I'm glad to hear you still found them useful.



It's pretty close. I'll have to collate and count them soon, and add a few more.
Thanks for posting the battrep and for the feedback.

I thought the protector was 200 in 6.6, didn't realise it had changed. In general I think the spacecraft history is a bit complicated since it used to be a hero.

I too prefer the 75cm broadsides at 325. They're good but relatively expensive, slow and no access to integrated markerlights.

On the AX-1-0 can it not be made a single? 375 is a huge amount to invest in an air unit that cannot do anything if (when) it fails it's activation, which with the way BMs affect aircraft is very likely. The same reason nobody ever fielded Phoenix bombers at 400.

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