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Tau Army List Year Review
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=22199		 Page 1 of 4
Author:  yme-loc [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau Army List Year Review
So the list has been stable for a year and has seen some tournament use in that time. Does anyone have any comments or thoughts on the list as it currently stands.

Are there any big flaws, do you think it might benefit from a minor tweak here or there. I intend to do a minor update in the next few months - mostly with the intention of fixing some typo's and stat errors. But I am open to making some other necessary changes.

Something I personally think could do with changing is making the Hero a Protector - as the Protector is basically identical to a Hero but with less transport capacity and so that naturally gives the Custodian a role, also the Custodian could swap a missile salvo for a pin-point as there is nothing in the background to prevent this and it would make the Custodian a much more viable choice.

Other areas that might need work are the ever problematic Drones, might just make these a bargain of two drones for 25pts.
Author:  yme-loc [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Also if anyone has any Kroot photo's I can use in an update can they pm me.
Author:  Dave [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 4:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
What was the reasoning for merging the ionhead and railhead stat lines? I ask because the railhead model had burst cannons instead of a smart missile system.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Here we go:

CORE

Crisis Cadre - Mostly Fine. Would still prefer Drones to be unavailable to Crisis as they synergise better with Crisis than with anything else in the army list (once you get drones to a level worth taking, then they'll *only* be worth taking on Crisis formations because the synergies are so good there, and not as good elsewhere).

Fire Warriors Cadre - Fine.


SUPPORT

Armour Support Group - Fine.

Broadside Support Group - Fine.

Kroot Kindred - Fine.

Pathfinder Group - Fine.

Recon Skimmer Group - Still suffers mildly from certain optimum builds, but not a huge issue IMO.

Skysweep formation - Still in need of a points drop. I suggest 225pts. The Skyray upgrade cost is 100pts per Skyray because as an upgrade it provides excellent synergies. As an independent formation you're almost never going to use the Markerlights, and thus it needs a significant price reduction.

Stealth Group - Fine.



UPGRADES

Bonded Team - Very rarely worth taking. Perhaps buff it in some manner; extra ranged AP attack? Extra FF attack?

Broadsides - Fine.

Commander - Standard Commander not worth taking. Suggest a drop to +25pts.

Crisis Suits - Fine.

Ethereal - Slightly sub-par. Suggest a drop to +50pts.

Fire Warriors - Slightly sub-par. Suggest drops to +75pts and +125pts.

Gun Drones - I agree they're underpowered. Could try out 2 units per 25pts. Alternatively, buff their guns to 2x Pulse Carbines (seems totally justified when compared to other units with Pulse Carbines in the army list) and leave current pricing untouched.

Hammerheads - Fine.

Kroot - Rarely taken. Suggest minor points drop?

Kroot Hounds - Rarely taken. Suggest increase to 20cm speed + scouts?

Kroot Oxes - Fine.

Pathfinders - Rarely taken. Suggest points drop to +100 or even +75pts (they are competing against Skyrays, after all, and Skyrays are awesome).

Piranhas - Rarely taken. Suggest points drop to +50pts.

Skyray - Fine.



AIR CASTE

Barracuda - Fine.

Manta - Fine.

Orca - Fine. Maybe mild armour upgrade to 5+ RA.

Hero Spacecraft - No objection to the proposed mod by Yme-Loc.

Custodian Battleship - If it was 200pts, and the Tracer Salvo was MW3+ instead of MW4+, it might be worth taking. Right now it's a lot worse than the Hero and also more expensive. I like the idea of the Tracer Salvo in concept, and would like to see it balanced rather than abandoned. Alternative: Keep Tracer Salvo & points as they are, but also add one pin-point attack (if the BFG stats would allow such a thing as logical).

Tiger Sharks (and Gun Drone upgrade) - Fine.

Tiger Shark AX-1-0 - Fine.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
I pretty much agree with everything E&C says except...

Tiger Shark AX-1-0 - Still not worth taking. Far too expensive for such fragile aircraft. I have not taken any for several years now and don't expect to. Given the synergy of numbers required for Tau armies to succeed, spending over 350 points on things that die like flies is not an option.
Author:  MikeT [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Has any thought been given to giving drone stands the grotz rule? I mean, they're designed to get in the way and block shots that would otherwise hit a fire warrior.

Other than that, the obvious skysweep pricedrop and maybe finding a role for the Ion-head?
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
MikeT wrote:
Has any thought been given to giving drone stands the grotz rule? I mean, they're designed to get in the way and block shots that would otherwise hit a fire warrior.
I would love to see something like this BUT it was discussed at GREAT length in the past. Certain members here believed that Gun Drones would be as valuable to the Tau as the Fire Warriors they were protecting so should not be seen as expendable. I disagree but then I disagree on quite a few things with the Tau list.

Kroot Ox should not have a higher FF value than Crisis Suits for example.

I will not go any further into this side of things as I know certain members will shout me down with their firm beliefs on this subject (no need to flame away here at all about this and any further continuation of the debate will only derail this thread).

I have seen the Tau list being used in a local campaign last year (by a newer player). It did ok but suffered mightily against horde armies (Ork Speed Freeks for example - 120+ Skorchas :o ) where it is very difficult to try and shoot the enemy off the table before being engaged to death.

I firmly agree with Dobbsy about the AX-1-0. Not only is it relatively weakly armoured but on a failed activation it does nothing. At least a Shadowsword (as the AX-1-0 was often called a flying Shadowsword) can still shoot/claim objectives/lend Fire Fight Support etc, on a failed activation roll.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Noone's going to shout you down; speak your opinion.
Author:  Steve54 [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 9:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Units I find myself struggling to pick

Skysweep - too expensive/fragile, but as well Skyrays are so useful attached to formations providing ML

Stealth suits - SR3,init 2+ so 3+ with BM makes teleporting difficult

Ethereal - without SC no real reason to take it

Of the others mentioned I really like Kroot as cheap ground holding units
Author:  Jstr19 [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 5:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
My main problem with the list is the internal balance issue with the recon group. 6 Piranha's are easily worth at least 200 points while 6 tetra's are only worth 150 points and a 3/3 split is really not worth considering, specialised selections are always optimum. This is a problem I don't see disappearing unless we split it into 2 choices.

Stealth suits and the Skysweep formation are also not worth taking. They cost far too much for what they offer.

Orca's IMHO are a bit too fragile to consider taking as the potential pay off does not seem to justify the risk.

All my other problems are minor point adjustments of only around 25 points and are fairly inconsequential.

I have no problems with the Navy switch. It always seemed odd to me that the Tau list used starships from 2 separate BFG lists.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Rug wrote:
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Noone's going to shout you down; speak your opinion.



In that case I'd hate to see drones dropped as a Crisis upgrade, that combo is synonymous with Tau in 40k, and I've always thought they should be expendable (note that they would still take BMs if the FM was exclusively drones)! Expendable drones would make them useful for EVERYTHING and not just Crisis, obviously they'd need re-pricing.

They'd still be most useful for Crisis formations and end up there 90% of the time, though.

As a solution the Drone Upgrade could be made cheaper for other formations, mind you, to reflect the lesser synergies.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Quote:
Plus, I get your argument, but why does it matter at all?

I'd rather see Drones viable as Upgrades for the widest variety of possible formations, not viable for one formation (crisis) and sub-viable for everything else.
Author:  MikeT [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau Army List Year Review
Could Devilfish be given the option to transport one drone stand as well as the normal 2 infantry, like the ork grot transport note? That'd make it more obvious they're for fire warriors as well.

If there's no massive outcry about some kind of drone grot rule, I might trial it some time soon.
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