So I've been using it a bit. I admit even with the change making the hero/barracuda/manta combo impossible I'm still all for dropping them. The general performance has been either excellent game long performance if used at the end of turn 1, but the rest of the army suffering more and coming appart quite a bit against enemy war engines. Or fantastic turn 1 destruction if dropped at the start but nearly always broken by end of turn one and often destroyed by end of game.

So some thoughts.
It can be made into 2 seeker missiles for no increase in points. Really it feels silly having the same seeker capacity as a piranha. Its got massive banks of missiles!

I would ask that it is considered to change the profile to 10dc and not fearless. Currently I drop it without fear of what happens when i break, it allows me to be very aggressive with it. I think it shouldn't be such an easy choice to drop it into the middle of the enemy army to take out the key threats to it, safe in the knowledge that breaking when surrounded is no great shakes. With this change I think it would actually be a tougher choice of when to drop. It would also make conventional deployment more attractive as currently, compared to say a Reaver that takes at least 28 hits to destroy, or a phantom that takes 27 hits to destroy - both of whch can be in cover and get -1 to hit - a manta goes down in 27 hits and of course gets hit a lot more due to not being in cover. Alsoo gives a different feel from the type of warengine other races use and adds int eh modern sensibility of preserving itself and a young race managing a very complex bit of kit in an environment that it wasn't designed for.

The Missile suggestion is a good one.


Manta's are definitely designed for battlefield use and they are definitely designed for atmospheric use.

I really had hoped that the Fearless issue was sorted out.
I'm not in favour of going back to a non-Fearless TK gun that hides in the backfield.

And I'll mention this before anyone else does (as has been brought up before)... no I haven't played a game with my Tau in over 6 months. That doesn't make me wrong. I intend to get some games in with my Tau before years end .

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What, you wouldn't drop a 10dc beast festooned with guns into the middle of the enemy? Actually you probably wouldn't as you can break it in an assault and then bm it to death or engage it again.

But you can drop a fearless one in there. There must be a middle ground between 'hanging back' and 'in the middle' - I would have thought 10dc provides that as its still rather tough. I certainly wouldn't feel that I had to hang back with something with all those hits, it would be like hanging back with a Leman Russ company.

a Leman Russ company that doesn't get suppressed until it's broken.

Indeed, I though I wouldn't over egg the pudding however by pointing out the assocaite stuff as then you have firepower, los, vulnerability to assaults etc brought into it. merely pointing out other non fearless formations of similar size and points that don't hang about.

And Onyz, want a game on Vassal? I'll take a Tau force you take a tau killing force and we will see how it goes?

Already has 2 x Seeker missiles.

Stats wont be changing at this stage, it can go up or down in cost based on playtesting but stats will not be changing.

Well ta for that clarification, I was for some reason reading it as 1 - I think I was being lazy and not looking at the latest PDF!

Fairy snuff on points - though I have to point out you shouldn't be completely inflexible as if it is indeed better at being dropped than deployed 'fixing' it with points would simply limit its utility, sometimes stat fixes are a better solution than points.

Personally if the Manta works best dropped thats fine, it really fits its background as a spaceship and means the Tau's big warengine is unique.

I am not completely against stats changes although I would like to avoid them at this stage, the odd weapon change here or there is fine but removing fearless and upping DC is just too big a change.