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Tau State of Play
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=19007		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  yme-loc [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau State of Play
OK my position on the Tau list is that I really like the work Honda has done, the list is pretty stable and brings something new in terms of playstyle to epic. I dont envisage making lots of changes, but I will make them if they are necessary.

The current version of the Tau list is 6.3, an updated version of this correcting a couple of minor errors and typos etc will go up sometime in the next week or so.

For playtest purposes follow the current list as written but with the following modifications to the main stat boxes (reference sheet has most of these changes already).

1. Manta – Should have Markerlights and Fearless in the notes section and is FF4+.
2. Manta Burst Cannon should be 30cm range and have AP5+/AA6+
3. Tigershark Missile Stike Variant has been removed from the list.
4. Gundrones – Should have Twin Pulse Carbines AP4+ Disrupt and are FF5+.
5. Crisis Suits – Should have Invulnerable Save in the notes and Fusion Blasters are MW4+.
6. Twin Fusion Cannon on the Hammerhead should be MW4+.
7. Hammerhead upgrade should be 100 Pts.
8. Twin missile pod on the AX-1-0 should be AP5+/AT6+.
9. Twin Ion Cannon on the Tigershark should be AP3+/AT4+/AA4+.

Please get playtesting these changes, the Manta changes particularly are quite significant since 6.2 as its gained fearless, better FF and is cheaper.

But almost all changes between 6.2 and 6.3 have been boosts other than the Recons going to 175pts so it would be nice to see a bit of testing of these changes even from those who thought the list was quite weak in version 6.2.

If you have specific concerns about formations please start a thread topic on them, be specific though if you have concerns with say hammerheads and stealth suits start two separate topics. Also if posters could try and stay on topic within those specific threads it would be useful, as interesting as some of the background and thematic stuff is it tends to overwhelm specific ideas and playtest results.
Author:  Onyx [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
yme-loc wrote:
1. Manta – Should have Markerlights and Fearless in the notes section and is FF4+.

The Twin Manta Burst Cannons should also be 30cm AP5+/AA6+ as per 6.2 (6.3 has them at 15cm AA6+). I believe the 6.3 entry is a typo.
Author:  yme-loc [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Onyx wrote:
yme-loc wrote:
1. Manta – Should have Markerlights and Fearless in the notes section and is FF4+.

The Twin Manta Burst Cannons should also be 30cm AP5+/AA6+ as per 6.2 (6.3 has them at 15cm AA6+). I believe the 6.3 entry is a typo.


I have them listed as 15cm AA6+ on version 6.2 and version 6.3, I think technically a Manta is armed with 16 long barrel burst cannon, it could by looking at the model be justified as 3 Twin long Barrel Burst Cannon with left fire arc, 3 Twin long Barrel Burst cannon with right fire arc and 4 Long Barrel Burst Cannon with froward fire arc, because of how they are mounted.

I think for the moment just go with the stats as listed between 6.2 and 6.3 but the Burst cannon loadout on the Manta is something I will look at.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Actually on the model the longbarelled Burst Cannons are moutned in such a way that each has a 360° arc of fire. But 10 can only shoot at targets below the Manta and 6 can only shoot at targets above the Manta.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
The stats are intended to vaguely represent that split, some pointing up and some pointing down.
Author:  Onyx [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 4:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
yme-loc wrote:
Onyx wrote:
yme-loc wrote:
1. Manta – Should have Markerlights and Fearless in the notes section and is FF4+.

The Twin Manta Burst Cannons should also be 30cm AP5+/AA6+ as per 6.2 (6.3 has them at 15cm AA6+). I believe the 6.3 entry is a typo.


I have them listed as 15cm AA6+ on version 6.2 and version 6.3, I think technically a Manta is armed with 16 long barrel burst cannon, it could by looking at the model be justified as 3 Twin long Barrel Burst Cannon with left fire arc, 3 Twin long Barrel Burst cannon with right fire arc and 4 Long Barrel Burst Cannon with froward fire arc, because of how they are mounted.

I think for the moment just go with the stats as listed between 6.2 and 6.3 but the Burst cannon loadout on the Manta is something I will look at.

I have them listed as 30cm AP5+/AA6+ in the version of 6.2 (and 6.1) that I have downloaded (in both the reference sheet and the individual data entry).

I remember bringing up the incorrect stats in 6.3 with Jim before - LINK (near the end of page 1) and LINK (Honda's 1st post).
The reason that this came up before was because the stats were accidently left off the reference sheet and out of date information was inadvertantly used by mistake.

There has never been a call to reduce the Manta Burst Cannons to 15cm AA6+ (indeed quite the opposite once the mistake was discovered).
Author:  yme-loc [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Onyx wrote:
I have them listed as 30cm AP5+/AA6+ in the version of 6.2 (and 6.1) that I have downloaded (in both the reference sheet and the individual data entry).

I remember bringing up the incorrect stats in 6.3 with Jim before - LINK (near the end of page 1) and LINK (Honda's 1st post).
The reason that this came up before was because the stats were accidently left off the reference sheet and out of date information was inadvertantly used by mistake.

There has never been a call to reduce the Manta Burst Cannons to 15cm AA6+ (indeed quite the opposite once the mistake was discovered).


OK thanks for the links and pointing that out, I will amend my original post to include.
Author:  zombocom [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
We redid the manta stats from scratch during the E phase, and the current burst cannon concept came from there. In the background a manta has 16 burst cannons, roughly half pointing upwards for AA, half downwards for AP. This would give 8xAP6+AA7+ or something, which is similar to the stats Forgeworld gave it in IE3. We decided to count them as twin-linked to be more reasonable, so the stats should be 4 x AP5+/AA6+, as they were in the E and 5 series of the list.

Likewise, the range should be 30cm, as in the background the manta has long-barrelled burst cannons.

I've no idea why they have been changed since then, as those were the correct and accepted stats.

EDIT: ok, so problem solved then :p
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Quote:
I've no idea why they have been changed since then, as those were the correct and accepted stats.

Typos that got kept.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 4:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
I've no idea why they have been changed since then, as those were the correct and accepted stats.

Typos that got kept.

Speaking of which, the Skyray should be armour save 4+.
Author:  yme-loc [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Sometimes typo's are a good thing, I dont think there has ever been an occasion when I thought - you know what my skyray needs apart from a markerlight, 2 x 60cm AA shots and 2 x 90cm Ignore line of sight missiles. It really needs armour 4+ ;)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Well, it's supposed to have the exact same armour profile as a Hammerhead.

It's a matter of getting it right, in this case, not of getting it balanced. Though they're balanced fine with AS4+ IMO...
Author:  BlackLegion [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
I thought the save was artificially worsened for the same reason as the save of the Hydra?
Author:  yme-loc [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Evil and Chaos wrote:
Well, it's supposed to have the exact same armour profile as a Hammerhead.

It's a matter of getting it right, in this case, not of getting it balanced. Though they're balanced fine with AS4+ IMO...


Indeed in 40K it has the exact same armour profile as the Tau main battle tank, despite the fact it has a bunch of huge missiles sitting on its turret - sometimes 40K is dumb :)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Tau State of Play
Quote:
I thought the save was artificially worsened for the same reason as the save of the Hydra?

Nope, t'was a typo by me.

v5.x and before had armour 4+ on them.
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