You guys are brutal. I never would have thought of doing that.  

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

That's a TRC list actually; he's the king of breaking lists. It's the subtlety of having the landing craft to have a single BTS that's so clever.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

How would it actually win games though? Can you win from the air alone? Sure they can hold objectives but would it do enough damage to ground units to prevent them contesting?

Also I'm keen to know why these sorts of lists are ever considered a problem when I'd be surprised anyone would really consider using them except to be a douche. Aren't all lists subject to shonky builds?

On the challenge question: I'm liking Morgan's list best so far.  

Yeah... subtle.

Subtle like a punch in the face.


Different? Clever? Sinister? Sure. Subtle, not so much.

Morgan Vening

LOL! That is an awesome picture Morgan

These sort of lists do work and work fairly well. In fact TRC's TH list prompted a rule change that disallowed aircraft from claiming objectives. They can contest but not claim. Another situation was the old Drone spam list where you had I think 10 formations of drones and everything else off board in Orca's. This led to the removal of independent drone formations. Or TRC's Scout drop pod list which disallowed Scouts from using drop pods.

The problem with these list is they can be very difficult to counter. The only potential problem with the recon list we have as yet identified are living fence lists where the recon formations can't maneuver around their opponent due to ZOC. Eventually they will be cornered. Artillery are less of a problem due to the scout rule and the relative sparsity of artillery formations able to hit the deployment zones. As well as how effective Tau aircraft are at removing artillery with little to no risk to themselves.  

These kinds of lists are taken to tournaments and it is part of the development process of all lists to see if these kinds of lists are viable and the extent of the problem they present.

Really? When?Of all the supposedly broken combinations the only one that has been taken and dominated in a tourney is the activation heavy siegemasters - whose dominance may have had as much to do with opponents unfamiliarity with siege as anything else.

These other 'broken' builds such as the 13 thawk or mass scout drop have never been used in tourneys, others such as the speed freek skorcha horde and the 3 thawk+termies and 4 warhound have been taken, dominated for a couple of tourneys and then been figured out. If you look at the lists that win they tend to be the more balanced builds which have a bit of everything and are therefore competitive against anything.

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

I would be quite happy to face that list with IG. I don't think it would be that difficult to build a list that would give it a pretty hard time. It's so geared towards ML/AT, that it's extremely vulnerable to a list that doesn't feature a lot of AT...but that is to be expected in a non-tournament situation.



I could see where someone who wasn't expecting the list might get blind-sided if they took an all-rounder list, but I still think it would come down to skill. In a tourney situation, one-trick ponies tend to do well against that one pony (which is a problem if it's your pony), but tend to get averaged out by the other players.

If someone is brave enough, they should take up the challenge.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Vassal ahoy!

I think if anyone submitted the 13 T'hawk + Landa list they would politely be asked to try again by most tournament organisors!

Sure, if you tooled up against it you could probably beat it easily, but we're trying to balance the list for a blind tournament environment.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Did the Scout Drop Pod list of doom (another TRC Special) ever make it to tournies or was it too embarassing for anyone to take?

I'm sure the Warhound Horde must have appeared back in the mists of time when the experimental AMTL list was allowed at tournaments.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Don't remember Chris show casing the scout drop army, but he certainly turned up with a 4 warhound marine army at one event!

I tried the list against zombo last night. Unfortunately we didn't take notes or photos for a full batrep. I took the list previously described zombo took a fairly standard marine list. I think it was:

Tac with hunter and SC
Termies with Chaplain
Devestators and Assault marines in TH
Devestators
Whirlwind with hunter
Landspeeders
Scouts
Warhound
Thunderbolts

There were some characters spread around as well but I'm not sure where.

Unfortunately I can't remember the game well enough to describe the events accurately. But the most memorable was in turn three when my BTS FW formation beat off the air assault zombo had been stalling for two turns due to the Tau being on overwatch.

I made a few errors but due to the high no. of activations it was a very forgiving list. By turn 3 the the marine transports and warhound were gone and the Tau having been on OW for much of the game were secure enough to be able to grab objectives. In turn 2 and three despite loosing 3 formations in turn 1 still had an activation advantage of 6 and 5 respectively. I'm sure zombo will be along to post his thoughts on having faced it.

Yup, we tried it out, Jstr19 won 2-0.

I deliberately didn't tailor the marine list against it, I took the sort of list I'd normally take to a blind game.

Basically the large Tau activation advantage just made it impossible for me to cope; I kept breaking formations but there were so many that soon I'd be out of activations and he'd be free to take me apart.

I definitely recommend either a price bump on recon (perhaps countered by price drops on other ML upgrades/formations), or some limit on recon numbers. Just compare recon to sentinels, which cost the same per unit.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Look, we are not making radical changes to the list because of one game. In order to consider large changes multiple games against different armies by different people would have to take place.

Your game is one data point.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment