I've been looking at my pathfinder formation recently and I have to say the upgrades just don't seem to work with them. Gun Drones and Pirahnas? So a fully maxed formation is

4 PFs, 2 DFs, 4 GDs and 3 Pirahnas.

Is it me or does that formation look a little bit too ad-hoc? None of the units seem to complement each other. The PF/DFs have a 30cm move, the GDs have a 20cm and tau jet pack, and the Pirahnas a 35cm move. If you tag them together the whole formation is anchored at a 20cm move. It seems a very difficult?? formation.

Does anyone else find a difficulty in choosing the PFs when you want to beef the size? I can see some uses for the base formation - a disrupt attack in prep for a FW assault or garrison/scout screening etc. But they're a small fragile formation alone and to beef them up means the above issues.

I could at least see a possible PF upgrade in that equation, depending on whether that would make them too large (but a more sustainable formation - over the course of the game anyway).

What would other folks see as useful additions to PFs?

Now that you mention it, the Gun Drones are definitely the sore thumb. From a capabilities perspective, they don't get their jetpack rule if matched up, so taking them is rather pointless unless you just want a cheap bulk up unit.

The Piranhas/Tetras I'm Ok with. I just looked and I thought they could take the PF upgrade, but they currently can not. That seems wrong to me. I think they ought to be able to do that.

Should they be able to take a Skyray?

Good catch.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Why should they get a Skyray?
Imagine a squad of Krads (Motorbikes) accompanied by a Flakpanzer IV  

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I'm not saying that they should. I am asking a question. As far as justification goes, this is 40K. I was just proposing a unit that had similar characteristics (i.e. skimmer, seekers) to the Pathfinders.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I'm kinda in agreement with BL. A skyray would seem an odd choice for a "light" scout formation given it's almost an MBT armoured vehicle. Plus the in-built ML cost included in the SR is a bit redundant for a formation that already has them and drives up their cost quite steeply for a single unit add-on.

Also, an issue that comes to mind in regards to a PF upgrade for them is that it means a 300 point formation.... Would people spend that much on PFs? Are they worth the same as a SM Tactical formation? They have the same unit numbers - 9 - with an upgrade. They do shoot better if they're in position but don't sustain the hits in return fire (for being that close) as well as SMs.

Adding tetras would seem logical but there's no Tetra upgrade per se.

How are PFs equipped in 40K these days?

Would they be better as a larger formation to begin with perhaps? So 225-250 for an all inclusive formation with no upgrades?

I'm sort of stumped.

But we're talking about PFs. Granted Pioneers with SdKfz 250s, Krads and a Flakpanzer isn't much better, but at least the primary vehix are similar scale.

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

too bad the sniper drones were taken off the list, that would be another small upgrade that would make sense, especially if the drones could be transported in an devilfish.

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Even if that comes at the cost of no one taking them? Remember that Epic scale incorporates several "squads" into one battlegroup, so having 6 PF + transport(9 units total) just equates to 3 PF squads working in concert near one another - a formation.

Besides, if you make them larger to begin with, perhaps you don't need an upgrade...??

But wouldn't the problem then be subversion of the Fire Warrior role?

I'll admit to lack of experience with Tau, but unless Pathfinders were costed out of contention (more than 300pts), I doubt I'd ever use Fire Warriors.

Statistically, the Pathfinders are identical or superior in every way. There's no role that the FireWarriors have, that the Pathfinders don't do at least as well as. Heck, the one use I have for FW (Garrisoning on OW during deployment), Pathfinders can do better (I don't have to de-mechanize them).

The one thing that separates them is the lack of numbers, making it a real decision.

Morgan Vening

Best argument yet. Thanks Morgan. I hadn't considered this issue.


Hena, just to clarify... you're wrong. It's how Epic formations are constructed. It's an abstraction. Marine Tacticals aren't 30 men per squad, are they? Who says how many Pathfinders run around in a battlegroup in a warzone? Having 6 pathfinder units in a formation is just one extra squad as part of the battlegroup/cadre/formation etc. Honda controls the list so he could, if he chose, put 2 more units plus their Dfish into that formation.

My point was, any formation size can be justified to a degree because the list is still being written and nothing is set in stone.

But this is all academic, as I agree with Morgan.

Honda, have you given anymore consideration to a sniper drone upgrade idea for Pathfinders?

I know previously I didn't think it was necessary but I've been giving it more thought lately. What about a weapon upgrade option for the whole formation? This way it's not necessary to have a specific model or an extra unit in the formation. The longer range emulates the abstraction of the sniper drone operating at distance from the PF controller and as a single weapon upgrade it's not attached to any particular unit because it's hard to shoot at a hidden drone controller etc.

How about:

add a single sniper drone weapon upgrade to a Pathfinder formation - 25 points

stats range 45cm AP4+(5+?) sniper, disrupt??

Again, another 25 point upgrade might be a nice option for the list.

How do others see this idea? Would you take a pathfinder formation more if this option were available? I know Hena loves PFs already but what about others? Do you use PFs as a formation?

I have been supportive of a Sniper upgrade, much like the SM version. The upgrade could represent sniper drones added to a unit.

Is what Dobbsy is requesting reasonable?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Just noting that 45cm would make them the longest ranged snipers in the game.

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