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Tau V6.2
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17414
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Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Honda asked me to upload the V6.2 file for him, so here it is:

Tau V6.2

I'm sure he'll start a stickied thread in time, or sticky this one, but I thought it best to upload the file for everyone ASAP.

Author:  zombocom [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Minor correction needed to the Tau Jet Packs rule; Honda has added Marching to the list of allowed ordered to get the extra move, but he hasn't changed the final sentence, which still says:

No extra movement is allowed on any order other than advance or double.

This needs to be changed to:

No extra movement is allowed on any order other than advance, double or march.

Author:  Honda [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 7:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Ok, good catch, I'll make sure that gets corrected.

Author:  Dobbsy [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

I've just noticed this, but what is the reasoning for twin Ion cannons on the Tigersharks? The stats are the same as an Ion Cannon, so they don't provide anything else correct? I know twin-linked is supposed to provide a +1 to hit but what does twin do?

Also the Railgun stats on the ref sheet are still out of alignment for the main guns on each turret type.




Author:  BlackLegion [ Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Only a minor thing: I would label the Mantas
4 x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
to
Burst Cannon Array 15cm 4 x AA6+
As i find it odd that the Mantas Burst Cannons are twin-linked but are AA6+ instead of AA5+ as twin-linked would suggest.

Author:  Onyx [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:22 am ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Thanks to all concerned.  :D

A few points:
- Why have the Manta Burst Cannons lost their AP5+ shot? (700pts for 5 shots ain't so good)
- Manta has Twin Linked Missile Pod. All other entries state Twin Missile Pod.
- Are the Pathfinder Rail Rifles supposed to be 5+ (not sure on this - Hena said something)
- The Barracuda fluff still talks about them using Interceptor Missiles.
- The AX-1-0 entry still has Twin Missile Pod AT6+ (should be AP5+/AT6+)

Cheers,
Steve.

Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: 

Only a minor thing: I would label the Mantas
4 x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
to
Burst Cannon Array 15cm 4 x AA6+
As i find it odd that the Mantas Burst Cannons are twin-linked but are AA6+ instead of AA5+ as twin-linked would suggest.


E&C: Please comment.

Quote: 

I've just noticed this, but what is the reasoning for twin Ion cannons on the Tigersharks? The stats are the same as an Ion Cannon, so they don't provide anything else correct? I know twin-linked is supposed to provide a +1 to hit but what does twin do?


I'll look at that.

Quote: 

Also the Railgun stats on the ref sheet are still out of alignment for the main guns on each turret type.


Grrr, I thought I had that lined up. I'll look at it again.

Quote: 

A few points:
- Why have the Manta Burst Cannons lost their AP5+ shot? (700pts for 5 shots ain't so good)


The aircraft borne burst cannon have been relegated to only an AA6+ value. It was part of the balancing act done when we did the aircraft evaluation earlier in the year. It's been that way for awhile.


Quote: 

- Manta has Twin Linked Missile Pod. All other entries state Twin Missile Pod.


Consistency seems like such a simple thing to achieve. I'll fix it.

Quote: 

- Are the Pathfinder Rail Rifles supposed to be 5+ (not sure on this - Hena said something)


That was my assumption and why they were changed.

Quote: 

- The Barracuda fluff still talks about them using Interceptor Missiles.


Fluff? Who has time to read fluff?...Ok, I'll get to it.

Quote: 

- The AX-1-0 entry still has Twin Missile Pod AT6+ (should be AP5+/AT6+)


Ok, I'll look at this. I'm assuming that you are referring to the descriptor box and not the reference sheet.

How is it that listing the same value in two different places increases your chance of error 5000%?

Thanx for catching these.

Author:  Onyx [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 8:59 am ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

No worries mate.

Quote: 

Quote: 

A few points:
- Why have the Manta Burst Cannons lost their AP5+ shot? (700pts for 5 shots ain't so good)


The aircraft borne burst cannon have been relegated to only an AA6+ value. It was part of the balancing act done when we did the aircraft evaluation earlier in the year. It's been that way for awhile.

Actually, the V6.01 had Manta Burst Cannons at AP5+/AA6+ or else I wouldn't have mentioned it.  :whistle:
V6.01 4x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 30cm AP5+/AA6+
V6.2 4x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
This change is as of V6.2.
For all intents and purposes, the Manta is not an aircraft in it's present state and I strongly urge you to put them back to 30cm AP5+/AA6+ as in the first list of this generation. Manta Burst Cannons are long barrelled to give the extra range.

Edit - stats from the Aircaste thread.
Manta - 700 Points
20cm Skimmer
Save 5+
Twin-Linked Railcannon  90cm, MW2+  Fixed Forward Arc, Titan Killer (D3)
3x Twin-Linked, Long-Barreled Ion Cannon 75cm, AP3+/AT4+  Fixed Forward Arc
4x Twin-Linked, Long-Barreled Burst Cannons 30cm, AP5+/AA6+
Twin-Linked Missile Pod 45cm AP4+/AT5+ Fixed Forward Arc


Whilst on the Manta, has there been any more thought regarding THIS thread? (Fearless/DC upgrade/Markerlights/pts change etc)
I've only used a Manta once under the V6 stats and that was against Marines with little ability to hurt it. Against Shadowswords (and the like) I can see them falling out of the sky quite quickly. I would like to see the Manta become Fearless.


Quote: 

Quote: 

- Are the Pathfinder Rail Rifles supposed to be 5+ (not sure on this - Hena said something)


That was my assumption and why they were changed.

They are still listed as AP4+ in both sections of the army list.


Quote: 

Quote: 

- The AX-1-0 entry still has Twin Missile Pod AT6+ (should be AP5+/AT6+)


Ok, I'll look at this. I'm assuming that you are referring to the descriptor box and not the reference sheet.

Both  :grin:




Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: 

Actually, the V6.01 had Manta Burst Cannons at AP5+/AA6+ or else I wouldn't have mentioned it.  
V6.01 4x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 30cm AP5+/AA6+
V6.2 4x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
This change is as of V6.2.
For all intents and purposes, the Manta is not an aircraft in it's present state and I strongly urge you to put them back to 30cm AP5+/AA6+ as in the first list of this generation. Manta Burst Cannons are long barrelled to give the extra range.


Ok, I stand corrected. When I was cleaning up the sheet I made the assumption that the burst cannon on the Manta were the same as the other a/c and that this was just one of those "consistency" things. I'll get the AP5+ back in there.

Regarding Fearless, I purposely left that out because of a very clear indication in the backstory of IA3. As the Imperial forces were evacuating, the Tau brought in Mantas to bombard the defenses and were quite effective. Then the Raptors chased them off with something on the order of a hslf dozen Landspeeders. That does not sound like Fearless to me.

I realize that is just fluff, but when possible, I am attempting to model the list based on what we can observe from reported "facts" (and I do use that term loosely). At this point, I have yet to field my Manta so have zero feelings on this one. By putting the AP5+ back in there are we close, if just a little bit overcosted? Any change we might make has to be extremely low risk at this stage and I say that because although FW might want to see a Manta in every list, that's not the effect I am looking for.

So what are our low risk options?

Quote: 

They are still listed as AP4+ in both sections of the army list.


Ok, I know I made those changes...I must have exited without saving. I'll go back and make sure they are changed. Same with the AX-1-0.

Cheers,

Author:  Onyx [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 15 2009, 18:28 )

Regarding Fearless, I purposely left that out because of a very clear indication in the backstory of IA3. As the Imperial forces were evacuating, the Tau brought in Mantas to bombard the defenses and were quite effective. Then the Raptors chased them off with something on the order of a hslf dozen Landspeeders. That does not sound like Fearless to me.

I realize that is just fluff, but when possible, I am attempting to model the list based on what we can observe from reported "facts" (and I do use that term loosely). At this point, I have yet to field my Manta so have zero feelings on this one. By putting the AP5+ back in there are we close, if just a little bit overcosted? Any change we might make has to be extremely low risk at this stage and I say that because although FW might want to see a Manta in every list, that's not the effect I am looking for.

So what are our low risk options?

Cool.

Regarding Mantas and Fearless/fluff.
Pg60 of the 2001 Tau Codex describes the battles on Dal'yth Prime. Mantas were used to counter the Imperial titans of Legio Thanataris eventually stalling their advance. Thats sounds like a pretty fearless thing to do... :laugh:

700pts did feel like a large cost for what I got. There are other ways to use the Manta and given time (and opponents) I hope to test them.

I certainly don't think it's far off course right now.
Keep as is with a slight points drop?
Add Fearless and/or a GM attack to keep at 700pts? Both are fine with me.

Anyone else test the present Manta stats?

Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 15 2009, 01:47 )

Quote: 

Only a minor thing: I would label the Mantas
4 x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
to
Burst Cannon Array 15cm 4 x AA6+
As i find it odd that the Mantas Burst Cannons are twin-linked but are AA6+ instead of AA5+ as twin-linked would suggest.


E&C: Please comment.

Keeping to the standard naming conventions makes sense to me.




I would also support upgrading the Manta's AA shots to 30cm ('long barreled burst cannons') and giving it Fearless, as currently it is sub-par.

Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

I've got a bunch of notes for Manta but every time I try and write them up I get interupted! I'll have another go now :)

Edit, nope summoned by wife again!




Author:  Honda [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: 

I've got a bunch of notes for Manta but every time I try and write them up I get interupted! I'll have another go now

Edit, nope summoned by wife again!


Ya know, that sort of sounds like, "Hey, I've discovered the secret to happiness...Oh, wait, I need to go to Starbucks. Catch you later..."

Consider me eager to hear your input.  :grin:

Author:  BlackLegion [ Tue Dec 15, 2009 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Tau V6.2

Quote: (Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 15 2009, 14:34 )

Quote: (Honda @ Dec. 15 2009, 01:47 )

Quote: 

Only a minor thing: I would label the Mantas
4 x Twin Manta Burst Cannons 15cm AA6+
to
Burst Cannon Array 15cm 4 x AA6+
As i find it odd that the Mantas Burst Cannons are twin-linked but are AA6+ instead of AA5+ as twin-linked would suggest.


E&C: Please comment.

Keeping to the standard naming conventions makes sense to me.




I would also support upgrading the Manta's AA shots to 30cm ('long barreled burst cannons') and giving it Fearless, as currently it is sub-par.

I`m more concerned with the number of shots because the Manta in Wh40k has a lot more than 4 Burst Cannons (16! ):)
Calling it Burst Cannon Array (or soemthing else fitting) would give you free reign about the stats.

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