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| Can all you guys please play nice? http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=17139 |
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Honestly guys, you're never going to get fresh ideas (or even interesting rehashes of old ideas) if you keep shooting them down and you can't call for bat rep evidence if you close a thread. Just wanted to make a couple of comments about the 3xSkyray fm. Morgan took 2 (plus a Skyray upgrade to a HH fm). The HH fm was broken by my nightspinners and was subsequently bombed out. The 2 skyray fms spent most of their time on Morgan's baseline. The took out 2/3 of a guardian + waveserpent fm (in transports, assaulting) with guided missiles on o/watch. Then in the last turn my nightwings wild weaseled one on Morgan's blitz (not under the umbrella of the other fm), lost 2 to AA but killed one, breaking them. My Vampire then came in and gratuitously unloaded a couple of aspect fms and wiped them out (10 hits FTW!), gaining the blitz. The other fm marched to contest a couple of TnH objectives. So, they seem pretty fearsome but are also fragile. Morgan did say that he should have moved up his skyrays to get better board coverage (I still managed to fly on and off without being shot, save the last turn), which would have made a difference, but then he wouldn't have had his o/watch fire against my guardians if he'd done that. If you really want me to write out a batrep I will, but it's alot of time and effort for not much return. |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:23 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (mattthemuppet @ Nov. 13 2009, 16:10 ) The took out 2/3 of a guardian + waveserpent fm (in transports, assaulting) with guided missiles on o/watch. From outside LOS, I should mention. The ability of the SkyRays to maintain significant threat to aircraft at 60cm and vehicles at 90cm, without needing to expose themselves, is a problem. The map was a little light on cover (appropriate numbers, slightly small on size), so advancing by terrain hopping was limited. If I were to play again, blind, 3-4 formations of SkyRays isn't out of the question. Which IMO is a problem, as anyone playing with a moderate amount of non-WM aircraft is in a world of hurt. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
I think 3-4 would be too much. Too anti tank, doesn't cover coming up against a feral horde say, too few units for points etc. 2 formations is the max I would go to, though I suspect 1 is a better reality to draw fire away from other units by stuff like air assault armies. Of course the bloody things (well piranha I think are worse) are a nightmare to enemy artillery parks. Get some stealths in then salvo those 6+ save vehicles! poor Imperial Guard take a beating from everyone 
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 13 2009, 11:37 ) poor Imperial Guard take a beating from everyone  well that's why there's so many of them! |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Actually I think AA6+ for skyrays, allowing ML bonus for AA and dropping the upgrade price to 75 points could solve quite a few issues with the list. |
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ Nov. 13 2009, 11:37 ) I think 3-4 would be too much. Too anti tank, doesn't cover coming up against a feral horde say, too few units for points etc. 2 formations is the max I would go to, though I suspect 1 is a better reality to draw fire away from other units by stuff like air assault armies. I'd agree with Chris on this - wouldn't take more than a couple of voidspinners or some IG counter battery fire to take them all out as you only have to kill one and they're broken. It's a similar situation to adding a firestorm to nightspinners as AA, they're rarely effective for more than 1 turn as they're almost always targetted and broken quickly. Anyway, thought you said you'd be more likely to drop one skyray fm and take a fm of barras plus something else instead? The 90cm non-LOS AT shot is a huge plus, but a very context dependent one. If I'd focused more on taking out your ML (or even just activating my units!) they would have lost a large part of that ability, relegating them to very expensive and fragile AA. |
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| Author: | mattthemuppet [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (zombocom @ Nov. 13 2009, 11:44 ) Actually I think AA6+ for skyrays, allowing ML bonus for AA and dropping the upgrade price to 75 points could solve quite a few issues with the list. shush, we're not allowed to talk about that, remember?  reasonable discussion not allowed.. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
I wasn't discussing the previously shut down proposal, I was proposing a suspiciously similar idea of my own...  
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| Author: | BlackLegion [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 5:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (zombocom @ Nov. 13 2009, 17:44 ) Actually I think AA6+ for skyrays, allowing ML bonus for AA and dropping the upgrade price to 75 points could solve quite a few issues with the list. Would cut the range to 30cm if no other ML formation is available. |
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| Author: | The_Real_Chris [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Its not a GM shot any more bl. There are arguments against it though, anyone care to summarise them? |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (BlackLegion @ Nov. 13 2009, 16:57 ) Quote: (zombocom @ Nov. 13 2009, 17:44 ) Actually I think AA6+ for skyrays, allowing ML bonus for AA and dropping the upgrade price to 75 points could solve quite a few issues with the list. Would cut the range to 30cm if no other ML formation is available. No, it'd just cut the AA5+ to 30cm, it'd be AA6+ from 30-60cm unless there's another ML unit in range. |
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| Author: | Morgan Vening [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (zombocom @ Nov. 13 2009, 16:56 ) I wasn't discussing the previously shut down proposal, I was proposing a suspiciously similar idea of my own... Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter. Morgan Vening |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: (Hena @ Nov. 13 2009, 17:26 ) I still believe that just dropping the formation will fix problems. Skyray didn't dominate that much before. It's not dominating now, it's just slightly better than baracudas. It's a very fluffy formation so it would be nice to be able to keep it. |
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| Author: | Honda [ Fri Nov 13, 2009 6:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Can all you guys please play nice? |
Quote: shush, we're not allowed to talk about that, remember? reasonable discussion not allowed.. Actually we are supposed to discuss options. What we are not supposed to do is stand in opposite corners and leak fluids on each other. I too am intrigued by Zombo's proposal. |
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