So as not to make Honda's intended comment-only thread into an ongoing discussion thread, I thought I'd make a new one.

So... what's the scoop on the Gun Drones?  What is the intended use?  They don't seem to be very points-efficient.  On paper, I can only think of a couple uses.

The upgrade could be bulk units but they would be the last resort because every other 25 point unit in the list has substantial advantages over drones.  Plus, one of the best possible uses, guarding battlesuits, really doesn't work because Crisis and Broadsides can't take them and Stealth lose Teleport if they have them.

The drone formation seems to have the sole use of air transport for establishing a crossfire.  I'm sure that is extremely useful in certain situations but it seems sort of one-trick.

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Neal

Under 5.x, pretty much their only use was in guarding Crisis Suits (in which role they were far too good, in my opinion).

I do feel that Crisis Suits have had two major nerfs (removal of drones, removal of Initiative 1+) when they only needed one to balance them, mind you.


That is one of its main intended roles, as an independent formation, I reckon.

As infantry, they can also take cover in buildings (something the other two cheap&fast formations, Pathfinders and Recon Skimmers, cannot do), giving them some staying power when pushed forwards... and with the Jetpacks they can hop around faster than their 20cm speed would imply.

So they're a light harassment formation IMO, mainly intended to claim crossfires via air drop, claim objectives, add extra shooting power to a Tigershark's attack run, and for light AP / Firefight duties (6x 5+ FF attacks with a 5+ armour save for 150pts is not terrible).

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I see their main role as making tigersharks a vaguely viable choice compared to ax10s.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I'll have to go back and verify this, but I believe my original cut at v6 had drones on Crisis and possibly Broadsides for the express purpose of putting some meat on those formations. I also believe that was argued out. I am ambivalent on the issue, so let's make the argument for or against now and decide the issue.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Arguments presented against allowing drones in Crisis formations contained some of the following:


1 - Crisis formations under 5.x nigh-always included drones, and other formations very rarely included drones. This implied that Gun Drones were simply being used as a cheap way to keep Crisis units unsurpressed, and that they were otherwise largely not worth taking. Thus Gun Drones as Upgrades to Crisis Suits were contributing to the supremacy of Crisis formations as choices in army lists, with Fire Warrior formations being much more rarely considered. We (those who worked on the E series of proposals) set out to rectify this imbalance.

2 - The E series proposals thus attempted to find them a role for themselves other than 'meat shield', as the Tau background states that drones A Often fly around in independent formations and B are categorically not treated as 'meat shields' but are indeed valued according to their worth to the Tau Empire (very communistic, heh). Thus the role of light harassment / crossfire gainers / light combat 'deep strikers' via air insertion was looked at.

3 - One of the minor design goals of the E series proposals was that you would never look at a unit on the tabletop and not instantly know what its Initiative rating was (All Crisis Suits were Init 1+, and all drone units were Init 2+, and no combination of Upgrades could change that). This was intended to make the various units easier to balance, so that they wouldn't have different Initiative ratings for the same points cost, and also so as to make the army easier to play/play against as a player could instantly recognize the Initiative rating of a formation by looking at one unit (important in the case of formations that have suffered attrition late in the game). This design goal has currently been dropped by the V6 series, as Crisis formations are now available at two different Initiative ratings.



So those are the three main reasons why Drone units were set as they were in the E series of list proposals.

Also, as Zombocom says, Drone Formations were intended to be a boost to the 'new' Tigersharks, but that discussion falls largely outside of the realm of this specific topic, although it is worth re-iterating that our design goal was to find a role for Drones that brought a valuable ability to the battlefield other than acting as cheap suppression-takers/buffer casualties for Crisis formations.

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I would argue that the nerfs to crisis suits have gone too far. It has always been my opinion that zombo and E&C have in the past been unfairly fixated on this formation as a major unbalancing factor in the Tau list (sorry guys). So in the E series they lost some movement, lost some fire power and lost some protection. I began to feel that they were a bit too fragile and only worth taking for the SC upgrade. FW's were able to put out much more effective firepower. My standard formation of FW's has 9 AP4+, 6 AP5+ Disrupt, 1 AP5+ ignore cover, and 5 AT6+. In response crisis suits currently have 4 AP4+, 4 AP5+/AT6+, and 4 MW 5+. Add to this that FW are cheaper, faster, can now take leaders and are actually not bad in a FF.

I realize that these changes were done in order to make FW's a more attractive choice (which I wholeheartedly support)but, I think that crisis suits which I didn't considered that unbalanced have been significantly weakened without anything as a trade off. Drones were a way of keeping the unit effective later in the game by minimizing losses and blast markers. I remain unconvinced that removing them was necessary when the drone rule is gone, and other changes have occurred to crisis suits to make them less attractive than FW's.

That's okay then, because Broadside suits are already fantastic and don't need the extra help of Drone Upgrades, IMHO.

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We were honest, and the upgrade option was removed.

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Do I see it as fluffy?

As gun drones, yeah pretty much, I see Gun Drones as operating more with the 'lesser' Tau like Fire Warriors etc, but that's probably just my personal feeling.

Importantly, I also see Gun Drones as Upgrades for Crisis and to a lesser extent Broadside suits as causing balance problems. So the two intertwine in this regard.

Shield drones are meant to be part of the statline of the 'greater' Tau though.

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So... are Drones now the Assault Marines of the Tau?

If you make them good enough to work as a formation on their own they become too powerful with crossfire air inserts from Tigersharks, but if you balance them for Tigersharks they suck in every other application?

If so, that's a shame.

As a gut reaction, I think I'd rather see the "Tigershark Premium" added to the Tigershark.  Let Tsharks have to take drones instead of Drones having to go in Tsharks.

Edit:  Then again, I have a history of not quite grasping the Tau aesthetic and background.

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Neal

From my point of view, Drones just became a bit "blah". They don't shield like they used to, and that, combined with the cheap independant formation were really the only reasons I would take them. I'm actually finding they aren't entirely needed any more in the lists I construct however.

If they had the two above abilities retuned to them I might consider using them again but the way the list is costed nowadays there's a good chance I won't anyway. Hena also has it correct about the 150 point cost vs Tetras. There's no way I would spend 150 on drones that are pretty naff when I can spend the same on a 35cm-moving skimmer with a ML and additional AT firepower with Pirahnas.

On the issue of adding them to suits I think they definitely shouldn't be added to Broadsides. I see the "invisible shield drones" in crisis suit saves so adding the GDs to them is unnecessary IMO and also just creates a fire soak which I'm not keen on adding back for reasons that opponents will see it as just another cheese factor in the Tau list. I don't see that formations should be able to soak so much damage and thus be near invulnerable in Epic. I don't want to play that way and I'm positive opponents won't want to play against that. Add GDs to crisis would see them being far harder than they are currently and they're already nasty when you take 6 in the formation.

So that leaves their only role (IMO)to be TS drops and I don't use TS's due to the cost issue again IMO so I'm looking to utilise more Skyrays with the odd Barracuda squadron if points allow.