GENERAL LIST COMMENT: While evaluating both lists, what I really want to see happen is a list that isn't just a container for a bunch of Tau units. I want the list to have character, to be defining. I saw the E list as a better example of defining "character" than the Five series to date. The "E" series brought together the elusive synergy that I was looking for. One of the sideline comments that I got was that although the E series basically got you to the same numbers as the 5 series, it forced you to use the units together to achieve that result. That comment nicely summed up what I was looking for. Although the 5 series was the product of several years of evolutionary growth, in general it had become an association of units vs. an army of character.
So I intend to embrace this new direction and place it within the framework of the "re-evaluation" note that I posted awhile ago.
So first off, I was not expecting to get everything "right" today. My position on several items mentioned is actually fairly soft and that is why there is a 30 day period to refine this entry before the real testing phase takes place. In taking this first cut I wanted to see what you see. There are things that I will back off on quite easily and there are things that I feel strongly about.
So let's see if we can get there.
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- Initiative Rating of Crisis Suits put back to 2+.
I'd prefer Crisis formations to be 1+ across the board. Though I do see the fun in having the SC have this ability, I think maybe the God of Balance should rule here.
I understand the desire for this. I was a proponent of the original boost, but using the nature of Tau as expressed in 40K, they are not a high initiative army in general. In fact, it is one of the reasons that most 40K Tau players fear hand-to-hand is because they must survive most opponents striking first. So, although those that like to field crisis suits (like me) have enjoyed this ability, I do not feel it is justified across the board for crisis suits. They just aren't that good in HtH, which I see as a reflection in the Initiative rating.
I understand that Epic's initiative rating is not 40Ks initiative rating, but to further explain why, no one has ever proffered that Fire Warriors deserve a higher initiative, yet a crisis suit is just a Fire Warrior in a different weapon system. I understand that not everyone is going to share this perspective.
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- Fire Warriors on foot increased in cost by 25pts.
I can't see this as being a good thing for Fire Warriors.
I purposely split the difference between the mechanized version and the foot version to simplify the listing. This isn't set in concrete, but let's ride it like this for the first cut and see. I don't think it is that significant of a change.
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- Fire Warriors denied access to several Upgrade types such as Hammerheads and Piranhas.
Again, I can't see this as being a good thing as it marginalises Fire Warriors. Under the E series Fire Warriors were sort of a 'swiss army knife' formation, one of only two formation types in the army (the other was the Hammerhead formation) that could be customised in style to some extent. This has been lost.
My first cut on this change was to ratchet down, then loosen up. I am open to adjusting these changes because I agree that this cadre is going to be a key to list play. So, without asking for the world, what is really needed here?
Do keep in mind that when I renamed the groups, I didn't undertake that exercise because I had nothing else to do. I did that to help organize in my mind how the different formations would operate and where certain functions would come from to realize a particular synergy. So although having a "swiss army knife" isn't a bad concept in general, there should be some focus on what the FW role should be otherwise we could just refine the list to "Fire Warriors + What ever you want to add". It makes for a simple list, but loses all character.
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- Drones and Stealthsuit Upgrades allowed on Crisis Suit formations.
I'm very much against this. The big problem with Crisis Suit formations previously was that when beefed up with lots of Upgrades, they could be used as a mainline combat formation, easily eclipsing half the role of the Fire Warriors (Infantry battles). The E series cut back on their upgrades hugely, because although a standard sized Crisis formation is pretty good, one upgraded with Drones especially is brilliant.
Basically, due to this increase up Upgrade choice I reckon that Fire Warriors will not be seen as the 'core' of the Tau army, just as they weren't under 5.1 and previously
I made these changes because I see a synergy between Stealth and Crisis suits. In my armies I operate them together all the time...like all the time. I understand what you are saying and I am not against dropping drones. I will consider dropping the Stealths as well, but will not commit to that action at this point.
Regarding the comment of crisis suits as a mainline combat formation. I am in favor of them having a significant role. Their role in 40K has expanded since their first inception and in fact in Apocalypse, which is Epic's poorer cousin, the Tau have been given access to large crisis formations for this exact purpose. So, I did this intentionally and see it as a feature of an infantry centric list.
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- Drones allowed on Broadside formations.
As with Crisis Suits, I believe this formation is great without Drones, and exceptional (too good) with Drones.
In this case, I was merely striving for consistency across the support formations. I have no beef with dropping the drones.
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- Pathfinder Formation dropped by 25pts, and loses the Sniper ability.
Sniper was supposed to give this formation a different niche to Fire Warriors, and match the background & 40k rules better. Now they're back to competing for the same army list slot as Fire Warriors, except they also have Markerlights...
I am not convinced that Sniper is justified, but I would like you to consider a potential upgrade for one unit like SM Scouts. Pathfinder units are not snipers in the true sense of the word, but an upgrade could represent the Sniper drones that are possible in 40K.
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- Stealth formation dropped by 25pts
I'm against this, Stealths are fantastic, and under the E series were actually on the edge of going up another 25pts, not down.
So, my baseline on this unit is that I did not think that it needed changing from the 5 series. I observed and felt that you got your money's worth from the existing stats. Now having said that, if there was a unit that I thought justified a +1 Initiative based on fluff factors for the potential cost increase you mention, I could support that. Realize that I believe in the E series, they were +1 Initiative and in the blended list they were a +2.
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- Hammerhead formation loses access to 'All Upgrades' and is only allowed Hammerheads or Skyrays.
Given your (Honda's) stated belief that the Hammerhead formation should be at the forefront of the army list, I'm surprised by the loss of customisation here. I've no great objection to this change, as long as an Armoured themed list is not going to happen in order to give the Armour players their customisability.
So, I thought long and hard on this one. In the end, I decided to embrace the concept of an "infantry centric" list with supporting formations. That means that the Hammerhead formations (4+2 units) have a slightly lessened emphasis. Given the reduced emphasis, I do not see a need for extensive build outs. They should be able to defend themselves from air attack, hence the Skyray, but in general will operate in conjunction with the core cadres in a supportive role.
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- Kroot Formation not limited by the number of Fire Warrior formations.
I liked that limit, in that it felt appropriate that there should at least be *some* Fire Warriors in the army before you start taking Kroot. It was a 'fluffy' rather than a 'balance' restriction.
There used to be a 1+ in front of the Fire Warrior cadres to ensure that FW were present in previous versions. I do not mind adding it back.
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- Created a 'Crisis Suits' Upgrade Choice (that seems only accessable by Crisis Suit formations?).
Having this upgrade as a 1-4 choice leaves it wide open for min/maxing exploitation. Having a list open to min/max abuse is a bad thing, which is why it was at a fixed size for the Crisis Formation under the E series.
This supports the other decision about crisis suits that I described above. Considering the cost of the upgrades and that this is the only formation where it occurs, I am comfortable with the the level of risk, but will watch this one. If it becomes gamey, then I'll re-evaluate.
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Fire Warrior Upgrade syntax changed.
The knock on effect of the syntax change is that you can now buy 2 empty Devilfishes if you want.
That wasn't intentional, so help me with the language.
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- Bonded Team Upgrade ('leader' for Fire Warriors) removed.
This was supposed to be a stealth boost for Fire Warriors, so removing it is a stealth nerf.
I understand, but I was modeling a specific behavior and at this scale, I felt that this version of the upgrade was the effect I was looking for.
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- Added 50pts to the price of Tigersharks
Why?
That wasn't intentional, I'll look at that.
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- A single Tigershark can carry 12 Drone units.
As Chroma points out, a single Tigershark can carry 3 Drone units in the 40k rules/the background, so this seems to be much too great a transport capacity.
Based on the other thread, I was obviously confused about the carrying capacity. Given that drones can add more drones, I didn't want to base the limit on formations, let me know what the total number of drone units can be carried.
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- Barracuda changed in stats.
Now you'll have weapons with the same name, but different stats, in the army list, surely?
I do not think the 5 series Barracuda stats need to be changed. I have been convinced that they were over-costed and agreed to address that cost in the past. I will re-visit the entry correct, but the 5 series stats is which version will be in the list.
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The wording on the almost sounds like you have to have the SC AND manta to get the 1+ initiative.
Would this be more clear:
The Manta and Battle suit Cadres containing the Supreme Commander have an initiative value of 1+
I will make this change, pending the decision on the Stealth formation.
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Additionally, there is no "Upgrade: Pathfinders" as indicated in the Formation: Pathfinders nor an "Upgrade: Stealth" for the Crisis formation.
Well, they're around here somewhere, where did I put them? Depending on some pending decisions, this could change, so let's hold on to this one for a little bit.
Cheers,
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I hope to get a playtest game in with it tomorrow (will be my first ever game with Tau in epic)
I would strongly urge you to return the FWs to the E series set up. 
