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Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16355		 Page 1 of 6
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Its not fearless.
Theres no markerlight.
Its not got seeker missiles.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Assuming these are typos, this affects my Tau proposal as I just copied the Manta stats from 5.1 without close review.
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
I did call for a ML during the last design phase... No joy (along with possibly have a Supreme Commander added - its says ion the fluff that a Manta can control the battlefield).

I think the other abilities were left out to try and keep the price of the Manta down.
We'll see what Honda and CS say.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Well according to IA3 the Manta is always armed with 10 Seeker Missiles and always equipped with a Network Markerlight.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:43 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Aug. 2009, 00:36 )

Well according to IA3 the Manta is always armed with 10 Seeker Missiles and always equipped with a Network Markerlight.

Have the rules been updated/changed in IA: Apocalypse 2008?  I believe that's the most recent incarnation of the Manta.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:57 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Even in IA Apocalypse it's the same:
- One Twin-linked Heavy Railgun
- Three Twin-linked long barelled Ion Cannons
- One Twin-linked Missile Pod
- Sixteen drone controlled long barelled Burst Cannons
- Ten Seeker Missiles
- Network Markerlight

In both books it hasn't even options to switch some weapons.
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:24 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Aug. 2009, 00:57 )

Even in IA Apocalypse it's the same:

Is it the same "Structural Points" in each instance?
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
I believe everyone knew what it had in 40K at the time of development. I think serveral decisions were made to keep the cost down and to stop it from having too much firepower...
Several members wanted it to be on a par with a Reaver, not a Warlord.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Yes. It has 10 Structural Points in both books. Thats 1 point more than a Warlord Titan (and 2 points more than the Epic Warlord Titan)!
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:46 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Slap on 3 seekers, a markerlight and fearless and at current stats I'd say it would cost 725. Make it DC10 then you would be looking at 800 and maybe making the hero 225 if the drop combination was too powerful at 3000 points.
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:35 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 06 Aug. 2009, 10:46 )

Make it DC10 then you would be looking at 800 and maybe making the hero 225 if the drop combination was too powerful at 3000 points.

I would most definately not be in favour of that...
A Manta and Hero have to be available in a 3000pt game.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Out of interest why? Incidentally I agree you should be able to do it, if only because its not a 'sure thing' (2+ activation, 2+ retain, too many Eldar and Space Marine armies with spaceships to guaranty doing it every time). But its quite possible even with the somewhat toothless Manta the drop is a bit much, especially if you popcorn the rest of the army to ensure its the last thing you do (have to try it out since I haven't since the stats changed. I asked in a separate thread if anyone had, but their wasn't much response). But then again I doubt it, since it will still be unshielded, DC8, going to suffer a critical at some point, lack thick rear armour and if you mess up far in advance of the rest of the army :)

Hence thinking that I personally see no reason why it can't have the seekers, ML and fearless with only a slight bump in points.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:07 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
unshielded

The Manta has a Tau Deflector Shield which gives it an 5+ Invulnerable Save.

And yes a Manta and a Hero should be available in a 3000pts game because this is by far the most common army size. Shoudn't be more effective than a SM Strike Cruiser which drops a fully loaded Landing Craft.
Author:  vytzka [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:13 am ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Aug. 2009, 13:07 )

And yes a Manta and a Hero should be available in a 3000pts game because this is by far the most common army size. Shoudn't be more effective than a SM Strike Cruiser which drops a fully loaded Landing Craft.

Only if the combo is not too overwhelming.

Don't Necrons have point values designed so you can't have a combo of something and... something else? at 3000 points?
Author:  Onyx [ Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Manta - just checking these aren't misprints
Quote: (vytzka @ 06 Aug. 2009, 18:13 )

Quote: (BlackLegion @ 06 Aug. 2009, 13:07 )

And yes a Manta and a Hero should be available in a 3000pts game because this is by far the most common army size. Shoudn't be more effective than a SM Strike Cruiser which drops a fully loaded Landing Craft.

Only if the combo is not too overwhelming.

Don't Necrons have point values designed so you can't have a combo of something and... something else? at 3000 points?

Are you saying this because you think it is overwhelming or just pointing out the principle in relation to the Necron list?  :;): (a valid point).
I'm sure that I read somewhere in the Necron forum, that with proposed changes to stats/points values, a Necron army may be able to have a C'tan and Harvester in a 3000pt game (can't find it now though  :glare: ).

I like the combo of a Hero and Manta and I don't believe a Hero is worth any more than 200pts (I'd personally prefer 175pts for a one shot wonder that may not get to shot at anything if the opponent doesn't bring any War Engines but thats not really what this thread is about).

If the Manta stats get better (as I would like to see) then obviously a cost increase may have to happen there.

All this considered, I'm sure Honda doesn't want to touch the Air Caste stats too much (if at all) so this might not go any further...
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