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[Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=16079		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
I was reviewing one of my Tau battle reports and I discovered a question I had asked that hadn't been answered; came up when a Broadsides formation failed to do something on a "1".

Broadsides, at least, are piloted by "experienced veterans", and, I believe, Stealthsuit "pilots" are also somewhat "elite", so why don't these two formations have Initiative 1+ like Crisis formations?

Just curious.
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
I'm torn. It does make sense from a background point of view, but then again stealths and broadsides are hardly some of the weaker units in the list at the moment. Hmm.
Author:  tneva82 [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (zombocom @ 06 Jul. 2009, 18:38 )

I'm torn. It does make sense from a background point of view, but then again stealths and broadsides are hardly some of the weaker units in the list at the moment. Hmm.

What's wrong with idea of increasing price if it's too good?

If it's not impossible to balance wouldn't it be better to have stats that make sense from background information? If they are piloted by experienced veterans and if that is why crisis teams have 1+ initiave then logically broadsides and stealth suits should have it as well.
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
:blink:  They aren't?  

[checks log of old Tau army lists]

Oh, my.  They aren't Init 1+!  

I agree with tneva82 (as rare an event as that is!), they should be by fluff.  Adjust points if necessary.

The FW progression thru the ranks is FW>Pathfinder>Crisis suits>Broadsides or Stealth>Commander's Bodyguard>Commander.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
And what's wrong with them being init 2+?

IG stormtroopers don't get init 1+, and they're every bit as elite.

I'd vote for keeping them as they are.
Author:  tneva82 [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (semajnollissor @ 06 Jul. 2009, 21:43 )

And what's wrong with them being init 2+?

IG stormtroopers don't get init 1+, and they're every bit as elite.

I'd vote for keeping them as they are.

Then comes the question why crisis suits are 1+. Internal consistency goes out of the window if just as elite if not more are 2+ while others are 1+.

You can make logical cases why tau has 1+ and storm troopers aren't but it's lot harder to figure out logical reason why crisis suits are 1+ and broadsides(supposedly piloted by even more experienced soldiers) aren't. If you have good suggestions as to how that comes you can of course share them. I'm running short of ideas on that regard!
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Jul 06, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Yes I think that's quite reasonable. Init 1+ and a slight price bump.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 am ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
325 points for Broadsides? 300 for stealth?

Rather not. Happy to keep 2+ to keep the cost down. Parts of the list are already overpriced now as it is.
Author:  tneva82 [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 07 Jul. 2009, 06:55 )

325 points for Broadsides? 300 for stealth?

Rather not. Happy to keep 2+ to keep the cost down. Parts of the list are already overpriced now as it is.

So because some units are overpriced these shouldn't cost correct amount with 1+ initiave? Strange logic. Wouldn't it be better to have correct price for 1+ broadsides AND the overpriced units by giving price drops for them?
Author:  Chroma [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:14 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 07 Jul. 2009, 06:55 )

Rather not. Happy to keep 2+ to keep the cost down. Parts of the list are already overpriced now as it is.

Yes, wouldn't proper stats *AND* proper costs be a better design goal?

Have you started a thread or posted on what you believe are overpriced, Dobbsy?
Author:  tneva82 [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 12:57 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (Hena @ 07 Jul. 2009, 12:45 )

I'd like to see the Tau formations being more cheap than expensive. To allow more formation than than less easier. Thus I'm not that sure it's worthwhile to upgrade the cost.

Yes. I'm sure marine armies would be thrilled to be able to field more formations as well ;-) Doesn't mean it's appropriate for game balance and/or background though.

Lists should reflect background where-ever it isn't unfeasible from game balance point of view. Internal consistency is also important to maintain(would it make sense if tactical marines would have initiave 2+, devastators 3+ and assault marines 1+ and terminators 4+ for example? Even if points would make it balanced it wouldn't just make sense...).
Author:  Kleomenes [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
1+ tau activations seems innappropriate with 2+ stormtroopers, to be honest. Stormtroopers are "very good" soldiers, on par with the best the Tau can produce (arguably, better in terms of morale and combat skill).

I'm not really involved with Tau development, just weighing in as I can't help but feel imperial troops get a raw deal sometimes in this regard!
Author:  clausewitz [ Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:31 pm ]
Post subject:  [Formations] Are Stealth and Broadsides "Elite"?
Quote: (Chroma @ 07 Jul. 2009, 12:14 )

Quote: (Dobbsy @ 07 Jul. 2009, 06:55 )

Rather not. Happy to keep 2+ to keep the cost down. Parts of the list are already overpriced now as it is.

Yes, wouldn't proper stats *AND* proper costs be a better design goal?

Have you started a thread or posted on what you believe are overpriced, Dobbsy?

Well he did start the thread immediately below this, where he outlined his concerns in general.
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