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Considering Chroma
CyberShadow
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sat Dec 27, 2008 9:34 pm 
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I wanted to open a thread to discuss Chromas Tau variant force list, found here:

http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 86;t=14010

While I am sure that there are many comments that people could make, I am specifically interested in aspects of Chromas list that people would like to see in the core list, or which represent the Tau better than the current list.

Thanks.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 3:27 am 
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Quote: (CyberShadow @ 27 Dec. 2008, 20:34 )

I am specifically interested in aspects of Chromas list that people would like to see in the core list

Woot!  My own thread!  *laugh*

Seriously though, the one thing I'd most like taken from my list is formation sizes based on FW pack sizes (Well, maybe except for the mis-labelled Tetra/Piranha packs); so that would be "base size" of three units for tanks, with upgrades of 1-3, for the most part.

One mistake I made in the point values is that the "base" formations should be more expensive than the upgrade point values to encourage building beefier Cadres and not going for popcorn.

I'll adjust the values in the near future, and I look forward to other people's comments.

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shmitty
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 7:48 am 
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There is plenty to like in your list Chroma.  Thematically the largest difference is the higher FF values.  I like the tau either way, although, having a higher FF gives additional play options.

Why the separate MW attack for the Heavy Railcannon?  I otherwise like your downgrade of the Manta.  My hope would be to shoot for a 750 point Manta, which would make it more playable.

Why the increase of AP for the Ion Cannon?  With it being AP3, could the AT value go to AT5+?

Why 3 Crisis suits in a formation?  With a pack of 8 from Forge World, it is easy to do 4 stands with 2 per stand,

I am not asking because I think you made an error, just curious about your thought process.
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Erik M
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 8:33 am 
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Hena, positive waves... Positive, constructive.  :whistle:

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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:30 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 28 Dec. 2008, 06:49 )

What seems to be improvements, on order of reading the list.
- Drones take BMs normally alone now, however there is no longer the allow garrisoning bit
- Ethereal seems to quite ok stats, I'm not sure how much it's changed
- Hammerhead ion cannon

Are you sure you've read the list, Hena?  *laugh*

The Drone rule is the same as in the Tau v4.4.3, just reworded, Ion Cannon Hammerheads' only change is a one point increase in AP fire, and the Ethereal's only change is to "give Blast markers" to Tau that see it die.

Rest of the changes are ranging from not really interested to bad or worse. Probably the list will play like Eldar mark 2 and not it's own unless you count popcorn from hell. For example the Broadsides would be most likely too good for spamming with OW.


If anything, Tau are "Eldar Evolved", even in their current incarnation: better armour, better guns, better numbers.

That Tau are *FAR* shootier than Eldar... my variant maintains the high level of "guns" that v4.4.3 has in it, and you could pretty much replicate any army you could make with it with my variant; you could even make a "gun line" list if you really wanted to, though you'd have to replace the Sentry Towers.

Sorry Chroma :smile:. With this list I feel almost no interest in Tau anymore.
So, keeping everything the same for Tau other than making them easier to collect and removing their, admittedly artificial, firefight restriction would destroy your interest in Tau?  That just doesn't make any sense to me!  *laugh*

I also feel that my list allows for the "flexibility" of the Tau military mindset by allowing any kind of mixing and matching as the player desires, to create custom Cadres for specific "jobs"... I'd say the Tau take some of the best features of Eldar, Imperial Guard, and Orks and make it into their own distinct whole.

And, no "Hit and Run" does *not* have to be used, but I like the idea of re-purposing special rules rather than making up "similar" new ones... would removing that and giving a "unique" Tau rule make them seem less Eldar?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 4:38 pm 
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What are your thoughts on the variant, CS?

I'd be quite interested in hearing them!

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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:03 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 28 Dec. 2008, 15:50 )

(this is also reflected by silly removal of Stingray and Scorpionfish).

Just to address this; both these "made up" units are replaced with ones that exist or are mentioned in a Tau text, and look the same for all you modellers out there!  *laugh*

Stingray: Missile Pod Support Hammerhead
Scorpionfish: Orca Missile Carrier

This is the utter falsehood that is spread around. Remove sentry turrets and there is no gunline. Ok there is Moray, but I'll ignore that for now as it should get changed one way or the other.


Maybe I'm misunderstanding what the "gunline" is... I thought it meant that the Tau could just sit back and lob Guided Missiles at the enemy, staying well out of range and line of sight and that any markerlight could help with it, just that the ultra-cheap Sentry Turrets were the cheapest option for inserting them deep into enemy territory.

With the range on Railcannon Hammerheads they could also be popping up to contribute to volume of fire.

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Erik M
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:17 pm 
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Excuse me but what the freaking Foch (big German clipper) are the two of you doing? Perhaps especially Hena (even if I'm not going to throw that rock).

It's a game, not the world.
It's an outlook (or perhaps an inlook) on how a force works out.

Calm down, get constructive. Don't piss each other off like this!  :sigh:

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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:23 pm 
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Quote: (Erik M @ 28 Dec. 2008, 16:17 )

Calm down, get constructive. Don't piss each other off like this!  :sigh:

Sorry if I'm coming off as "pissy", not my intent... Hena and I tend to get a little heated about whatever we discuss...    :_(  

And discussing Tau just sees to bring out the "heat" even more!  *LAUGH*

My list was designed to shake up "assumptions" about the Tau army and to think outside the usual "box" of Tau development... it's a rough draft and can definitely use work, but it was put out there to change the debate a little instead of arguing over... Sentry Turrets... and, yet, here we are again!    :laugh:

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shmitty
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 5:46 pm 
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Hey Chroma,

Would you mind answering my questions from the 3rd post in this thread?  I have some others but thought I would start there.  Perhaps we could get a more constructive conversation going?
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Chroma
 Post subject: Considering Chroma
PostPosted: Sun Dec 28, 2008 6:05 pm 
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Quote: (shmitty @ 28 Dec. 2008, 06:48 )

Why the separate MW attack for the Heavy Railcannon?  I otherwise like your downgrade of the Manta.  My hope would be to shoot for a 750 point Manta, which would make it more playable.

Ah, reading up on the Heavy Railcannon showed that it has two firing "modes", one being a "single shot" hard-hitting round and the other being a "sub-munitions" shot that strikes an area, so I felt both options should be available.

A 750 point valued Manta would probably be a good thing to aim for.

Why the increase of AP for the Ion Cannon?  With it being AP3, could the AT value go to AT5+?

Just felt the Ion Cannon needed a little bit of a boost... it's a good infantry killer in 40k, even against Marine-level armour, and it can still crack some tanks... a decreas in AT power might be warranted, but I don't want to make it less attractive than the Railgun version... which, too, has an alternate "mode" of fire, but giving it that will make it far better than the Ion Cannon.

Why 3 Crisis suits in a formation?  With a pack of 8 from Forge World, it is easy to do 4 stands with 2 per stand,
I liked the theme of "three" in general for the Tau army (though there were exceptions), and "Three-as-one" is the Tauish concept for Crisis Suits so it plays into that as well... So, adding a Shas'O and Shas'El to the models gives you some spares to add to other Cadres.

Next question!




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