Tactical Command
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Moray and Planetfall
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=14329		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
I've been looking at the Moray statline for another unit. I can fairly closely sum up most of the things I want, but the one part I can't, is the value of Planetfall on the Moray specifically. Orca and Manta both have Planetfall, but they're also transport dropships. Does that significantly affect its value, or not? Woul losing Planetfall from the statline not be an issue, or would it make it too penalising for the 300pts?

Morgan Vening
Author:  zombocom [ Mon Dec 22, 2008 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
The entire statline of the moray is currently being debated, and it's generally considered pretty overpowered currently. I wouldn't use it as the basis for anything right now.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Tue Dec 23, 2008 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
Quote: (zombocom @ 22 Dec. 2008, 22:57 )

The entire statline of the moray is currently being debated, and it's generally considered pretty overpowered currently. I wouldn't use it as the basis for anything right now.

Really? Where? I'd like to see the discussion. Cause the Moray, for the most part, is so close to what I want to see in an Overlord Airship, that it's not funny.

Code Sample: 
NAME   Type  AR CC FF  Weapons            RNG  Firepower
Moray   WE   5+ -- 5+  2 Railcannons OR   75c  MW3+, TK(d3), FxF
                      2 Heavy Ion        60c  3xAP3+/AT3+, FxF
                      Twin Burst Cannon  15c  AP4+/AA6+, FxF
                      Intercept Missile  30c  AA5+
                      Tracer Missile     75c  MW6+, Guided

Notes: DC3, Support Craft, Planetfall, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Tau Deflector Shield


Code Sample: 
NAME   Type  AR CC FF  Weapons            RNG  Firepower
Over    WE   5+ -- 5+  BatCannon Battery  75c  3xAP4+/AT4+, LArc
                      BatCannon Battery  75c  3xAP4+/AT4+, RArc
                      Thunderfire        60c  AP6+/AT5+/AA5+
                     
Notes: DC3, Support Craft, Reinforced Armour, Fearless, Invulnerable Save


Slightly softer armor against Macro and TK, and a switching of the lesser weapons to a Thunderfire (I'd have brought the range on those down a notch, but there seems to be an issue with redefining weapons systems). The additional arcs of the main weaponry are compensated by their spinal divide (Moray has 90 degree forward, Overlord MUST be pointing towards the target to get the same firepower). Extra range is compensated by lesser damage.
The only thing I couldn't figure, as my initial post stated, was the value of Planetfall.

Oh well, back to the drawing board. But it'll still have Support Craft as a Note. Fits in with Overlords much better than Skimmer.

Morgan Vening
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
I've often thought that Support Craft is better than Skimmer for Overlords aswell.

Certainly don't be put off by others opinions on Morays. Play it with your stats, give it a go and see how it works out. I'd be very interested in how it plays for you.
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:04 am ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
The Moray is generally considered overgunned, and in the next revision will have its weapons reduced in number or range.
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
Quote: (zombocom @ 24 Dec. 2008, 08:04 )

The Moray is generally considered overgunned, and in the next revision will have its weapons reduced in number or range.

That's why I said "play it with your stats...".

Support Craft and Overlords seem made for each other.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
Also, is it the two Volcano Cannon version that is the bigger problem? Or either? Or certain abilities? I'm curious where the problems lie, and what the solutions might be.

Morgan Vening
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Dec 24, 2008 3:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 24 Dec. 2008, 17:56 )

Also, is it the two Volcano Cannon version that is the bigger problem? Or either? Or certain abilities? I'm curious where the problems lie, and what the solutions might be.

Morgan Vening

There are so many different answers to that question...

Probably best to do a search through all the recent Tau threads and you'll get an idea of the discussion.
Author:  Morgan Vening [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 10:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
OK, I read most of the developmental threads.

Most of the focus with regards the Moray (and similarly the Manta) seems to stem from two major issues.
1) Support Craft LOS rule.
2) Railguns (TK).

For 1, I was mistaken when I read the Support Craft rules. For the Overlord, I'd only want 'always popped up' (APU) rather than the issues seen with the Support Craft rules. This seems to be seen as a possible solution.

With regards 2, has there been issues from either side regarding the Ion Cannon (AP/AT) weapon variant? I didn't read any complaint regarding the AP/AT variant, except in relation to point 1.

Morgan Vening
Author:  zombocom [ Thu Dec 25, 2008 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Moray and Planetfall
Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 25 Dec. 2008, 21:32 )

With regards 2, has there been issues from either side regarding the Ion Cannon (AP/AT) weapon variant? I didn't read any complaint regarding the AP/AT variant, except in relation to point 1.

It's been suggested to drop the number of shots to 4.

Te main problem is indeed the support craft rule, which means it would need to be several miles up in order to see over all terrain, yet it can somehow still be hit with an meltagun?

Go with always popped up for the airship, it makes sense.
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