So, what do you see the Manta as? As far as I can tell the current gun happy beast is in response to a line in a codex that has them fighting Warlords. I should point out here that just because they fight warlords doesn't mean they have to be comparable (and didn't they have superior numbers, deployment and manoeuvrability?) one on one.

I do think the armament should be comparable to a Reaver titan, with similar damage resistance (but more of it, as we all know big flying things might be bigger than tanks but can't have the same armour all over, they can lose bits of structure though) and a better transport capability.

This is the 40k model stats for what they are worth

Structure points 10 Armour 13/12/11 (This may mean stuff to 40k players, as far as I can tell it means it can be shot 10 times and I think has the same armour as a hellhound tank.)

Weapons
Twin linked Heavy railguns
3 x twin linked long barrelled ion cannons
twin linked missile pods
16 drone controlled long barreled burst cannon (firing roughly 4 in any direction)
10 seeker missiles

Transport
Upper deck 48 Tau infantry, with heavy drones counting as 4 infantry or kroot hounds counting as 2 tau infantry.
Lower deck 140 Tau infantry OR 4 vehicles (devilfish, hammerheads and skyrays, piranha) and 10 crisis suits/5 broadside battlesuits. The devilfish may be preloaded with 12 Tau warriors/pathfinders.
Alternatively the lower deck can fit the following or any exciting combo using common sense.
50 Crisis battlesuits
25 broadside battlesuits
36 heavy gun drones
12 sentry turrets
12 tetra speeders

To me the weapon load looks similar to a Reavers (big gun, two secondary systems - ion cannon and seeker missiles/missiles + close in defensive weapons) and I do think that should be the points value and effectiveness to aim at - 600 to 650. My suggestion is my old one and follows in the next post!

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

In 40K the aircraft rule makes it virtually unkillable. It reduces ranges and makes it very hard to hit. But it must be said again that the Manta is a glorified troop transport. It is ment to ferry large numbers of fire warriors/ crisis suits to the front. Not to stand toe to toe with enemy titans. The Tau use bombers to deal with Titans.

Still catching up, but this thread interested me. I see the Manta as a Warlord equivalent in terms of 'top of the tech tree', but very different functionally. For me, the Manta is a Warlord with a sacrifice in terms of staying power (and I agree that this should be roughly Reaver level) but the ability to transport and 'fly' does counter act this, rectifying the balance a little.

To me, the Manta is the Tau Warlord in terms of the pivotal role in the force, and the fact that it does instill fear in the enemy, but for different reasons.

The Manta is less flexible than a Warlord, and in some way even than a Reaver, and is more specialised.

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

The SG Manta is overgunned, as far as I'm concerned ; As Jstr says, the job of a Manta shouldn't primarily be that of 'ship of the line' like a Warlord Titan... primarily it should be an assault carrier, with its combat ability sitting secondary to that.

IIRC, FW's Manta stats are more inline with my expectation on this.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Really? Why not then equal to a Emperor which is the top of the titan tech tree?

As to flexibility I have no idea how to represent that. Currently it is far more flexible than anything else in Epic having stacks of guns, the ability to planetfall itself into excellent positions, can transport, gets to be a support craft for better or worse and is fairly nippy. How do you think that could be shown?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

As Jstr says, the job of a Manta shouldn't primarily be that of 'ship of the line' like a Warlord Titan... primarily it should be an assault carrier, with its combat ability sitting secondary to that.

To me the "Tau don't do assaults in Epic:Armagedon"-Design-Philosphy is one of the big flaws of the Tau list.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

I really agree with Black Legion. Tau in 40kid are brilliant at close range fighting just not when using knives and swords.

I agree too but what can you do when everyone wants character instead of balance..?

Problem is Hena a lot of people don't like it and you're just one person, like me. We have to suck it up. Majority usually rules....

Well those folks have, I guess, elected not to contribute so they get whatever the majority of folks here decide. If you don't vote, you get George W. Bush as a president  

The problem with making them a great FF force is they just mirror the imperial guard even more (though no doubt with their armour would be better).

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x