Tactical Command
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quick free planet fall questions
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=13092		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  ragnarok [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 9:05 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Is planet falling a free activation on the turn that you declare it arrives?

For example you have 7 activations and declare that the Manta will arrive on turn 1, do you get 8 activations.

The manta planetfall rule says:

On arrival, the Manta descends to ground level and conducts a normal activation.

Does this mean that the manta must be the next activation?

Finaly.  Does using a free planetfalling manta stop you from using other space assets?

Thanks for the help.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Rag - i think where it states "and conducts a normal activation" gives it away.
Author:  scarik [ Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
A Freefalling Manta, to the best of my knowledge, appears then activates normally during the planetfall phase of the turn.

Then it gets destroyed by Shadowsords.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 12:08 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Quote: (scarik @ 17 Jul. 2008, 23:20 )

Then it gets destroyed by Shadowsords.

Not if it makes all it's Deflector shield saves  :vD
Author:  scarik [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:05 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Yeah, that's happened before, so I Retained and Deathstriked it.

Granted the Retain failed but the Deathstrikes killed it anyway.

Then there was the time both Death Strikes missed and the Tau promptly killed all my Shadowswords...
Author:  Dobbsy [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:36 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
So, a good even fight between these two unit types all round then...?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Quote: (scarik @ 17 Jul. 2008, 23:20 )

A Freefalling Manta, to the best of my knowledge, appears then activates normally during the planetfall phase of the turn.

Then it gets destroyed by Shadowsords.

You do realise on average you would need 16 TK hits to kill it? It would take both formations to maybe do it (their average is a mere 11 but of course the deathstrikes are quite variable) and to be honest any tau player who drops in the manta before taking care of the deathstrikes should be unlucky and die. Mantas should _always_ drop in, it is an amasingly powerful tactic. Part of why I'd like to see them as Reaver equivalents (650 points and stats to match) with the deflectors set at a flat 5+.
Author:  ragnarok [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:18 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Sorry Dobbsy it still isn't clear.  Anything that planet falls conducts a normal activation later in the turn.

Also do I roll to planetfall the manta, then roll again to move/shoot with it.  Or is its ground activation part of the planet fall activation and so you only need one roll for both.
Author:  Jonluke [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:46 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
As far as I can see, just hammer it with massed barrage until it breaks, who cares about killing it?

And as for the topic of this thread: The manta planetfalls and automatically activates then and there.
Author:  ragnarok [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:18 am ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
*Slams head into wall*

Why don't I get it?  :upside:

Lets see.

I declare that my Manta will arrive turn 1

At some point during turn 1 I declare that it will planetfall and roll to activate it

If I fail it stay put until next turn

If I pass then it planet falls and everyone gets out.

The Manta then gets to make an immediate activation.

Now for thge bits I don't get

1) When delcaring a free planet fall do I also have to declare its second activation at the same time such as planet fall/sustain or planet fall/engage?

2) Do I roll to activate the Manta for its second activation, or does it automatically pass the activation roll if it passes for its planet fall?

3) Is the mantas activation a free activation, or does it count as retaining.

Example one:

I planet fall the manta as my first activation and drop off  some crisis suits.  Then for its activation it nips around an enemy formation to get cross fire using the crisis.

Can I then retain with a sustain from the crisis to finish off the enemy, or have I already had my 2 activations?

Example 2:

I activate a hammerhead formation and run (skim?) upto an enemy formation and shoot it

Retaining I drop the manta behind the enemy (hoping it wont scatter away).

Can I now activate the manta and sustain at the enemy? or is it now the enemies turn and I have to activate the manta as my next activation after his?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 1:44 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
We do the same.
Roll to activate
Planetfall (60cm from enemy blitz near enemy baseline does it for me)
Anything inside gets to disembark
Move and Fire

Note we say this is a WE combined action and the transported stuff has to fire as well. Normal planetfall does not include the action - if it does surely we think it would follow the normal WE rules for transported units.

Note there is another way to see it and thats as the troops inside can't disembark following the planetfall (too high up?). That would be
Activate
Planetfall
Move, disembark and fire
Author:  Ginger [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 2:42 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
Guys

Are we presuming that there is also a spaceship involved here?? The Rules As Written allows every formation a single activation in each turn. Usualy, formations planetfall from a Spaceship, which activates allowing the various formations to planetfall. As it is the Spaceship that activates, these other formations are allowed to activate in their own right later in the turn (so here, you can think of planetfalling as a means of placing the formations on the battlefield). Once the Spaceship's activation is ended, the player may retain and use any of these formations to move, fire or assault as normal (or they can be used later on).

However, where no spaceship has been purchased and the transport is testing to activate using a planetfall, then arriving on the battlefield has to be regarded as it's activation. In this, it can be thought of as a modified Air approach move following it's activation. Consequently it then becomes a moot point whether any troops it transports can subsequently activate later in the turn, and the transport certainly cannot. Indeed, this is essentially Neal Hunt's alternative suggestion allowing individual formations to make a High-speed entry approach to a target, which could not be CAPed and where Ground AA was reduced by -1 (there were other movement restrictions which I cannot remember at the moment).

If we want to allow this variation on planetfalling, may I suggest that we make this form of "planetfalling" an alternative Air Activation and approach move. Thus the process would be to plot the Landing zone and planetfall as usual, activate the transport (scattering etc), but allowing the formation to assault or shoot once it is on the ground - after which neither transport or contents are allowed to activate until the following turn (this would need a different name to distinguish it).

Note, I am really unsure about this because it would allow several such "surprise" attacks in a single turn which could be devastatingly effective - and is probably significantly overpowered.
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
I can't speak for what's written on the Manta specifically, but the generic Free Planetfall rules I wrote work as Hena and TRC describe.

The only caveat is that as with any loaded WE, once the activation begins, the formation is treated as one until the end of the action.  You could use the Planetfall to dismount as TRC describes, but the units will be required to keep coherency until the end of the action when they split into their individual formations.  The Planetfall... then move/dismount is probably going to be superior in most cases.  The only reason to dismount immediately would be if you suspected the transport might be destroyed by OW fire.
Author:  Honda [ Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:35 pm ]
Post subject:  quick free planet fall questions
I don't know where the PF rules are now, but one of the things that made the Manta so powerful was the fact that it could PF without a spaceship. In other lists, a spacecraft must be purchased, thus adding to the cost of the ability. IIRC.
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