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Tau lists that should be overpowered
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 11:42 am 
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2 x Battlesuit cadre
+ Drones
Battlesuit cadre
+ Drones
+ SC
AMHC
- rail heads

Stealth Support Group
Broadside Battlesuit Support Group
+ Drones

Moray
Moray
Tigershark
Tigershark


I've faced a variant on that list a number of times... it still gives me nightmares. :D

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asaura
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:43 pm 
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Hey, if that list is overpowered, then count me in for playtesting it. I'd refine it a bit, to max the abusive aspects that I see:

Crisis + drones
Crisis + drones
Crisis + drones

Moray
Moray
Barracudas

Stealthsuits
Broadsides + drones (BTS)

Hammerhead support
Hammerheads + swordfish

If this is uber, which I don't believe without seeing it first, then I agree that Tau 4.4.2 is broken. Specifically, that it is broken by favoring Crisis suits over plain infantry.

I'll need some time to get all the models in shape, but let's play!
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:48 pm 
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Jstr's list there beats everything short of an air-assault Marine list, at least under his capable hands.

Why do you consider dropping the Tigersharks and the SC to be making the list more abusive?


Specifically, that it is broken by favoring Crisis suits over plain infantry.


I think we've been saying that Fire Warriors are inferior to every other core choice in the SG list for a long time now.




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Jstr19
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:50 pm 
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The Scorpionfish list needs to be designed around ML's and Guided missiles. It would normaly be marker drones and Scorpion fish and Stingrays with the cheapest core units and Tetra's and Pirhana's to back it up with mobile ML's in case your opponent manages to get through the ML gauntlet you've set up. Also with a Hero in the list you should snipe a couple of super heavys or perhaps a small titan.
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Soren
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:18 pm 
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I will not add anything to unit stats because did it again and again, don?t see the point of repeating myself more than neccessary. :)

I can only say that I have not won any game with marines against a missile spewing TAU list. (And I think of myself I am quite competent in commanding my tincans into battle) One game against a complete new player who didn?t know what doing doesn?t count :) . It is already stated that the only viable counter is a complete Drop list and I am pretty sure that this facrt is a very good indicator that something is plain wrong with the list.

Don?t blame the postman for the content of the letter :;):

My 0.002 cent

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:29 pm 
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I would say tigersharks over Barracuda asaura.

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asaura
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:30 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 11 2008,12:48)
QUOTE
Why do you consider dropping the Tigersharks and the SC to be making the list more abusive?

I think we've been saying that Fire Warriors are inferior to every other core choice in the SG list for a long time now.

Not enough points to include them in 3000 and still have room for the other components of the List of Doom... I want them both, of course, but something's got to give. The abusive components I tried to max out are the Crisis suits, of course, backed up by enough drones.

We know you've been saying that FWs are inferior. Talk is cheap, you know. Saying X does not mean that X is true. I'm sure you have the evidence to convince yourself, but you haven't shown it here, so we can't tell for ourselves. What Hena is trying to do here is to put your idea to a public test. I'm sure you're not just pulling this stuff out of your hat, but the data needs to be made public to convince anyone.
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asaura
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:31 pm 
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(The_Real_Chris @ Jun. 11 2008,13:29)
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I would say tigersharks over Barracuda asaura.

Hey, I like Tigersharks as well, but I can't fit them in 3000 points and still retain the other parts of the List of Doom.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:33 pm 
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We know you've been saying that FWs are inferior. Talk is cheap, you know.


As I said, I'll try and get a horribly rigged batrep or two up. :D

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zombocom
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:47 pm 
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I've told Jstr19 to bring the most broken Tau list he can to the London Experimental Tournament day. You should be able to see in person or in the battle reports from the event what he is talking about.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:09 pm 
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(Hena @ Jun. 11 2008,13:34)
QUOTE
jsr, please post some exact lists so that it's easier to evaluate. I suppose you should have some saved up from your games.

Btw, was my batreps Marine army what people consider complete drop lists? I could try to play IG next time, though I don't have ready made tournament lists for IG as I haven't yet fielded them in tournament (in opposition to the selection of Marine lists that I have).

Hena, I believe a "complete drop list" is just that - something like Hymirl's list in the recent WPS tournament where everything starts off table except for one or two token ground formations. The obvious point being that each Marine formation gets to arrive and assault something at close quarters without being picked off by the Tau extreme shooting (eg Moray / Tigershark / markerlight combinations etc).

I've not recently played or seen the Tau in action personally, but a constant theme amoung the critics seems to be that the games are very black and white, and typically one-sided. This is because the "fluff" suggests that they have excellent shooting capability but are averse to close combat - so any strategy that mitigates their shooting and gets to grips with the Tau will have greater chances to beat them. Conversely, armies that try to "stand-off" and pick on weak points are likely to lose out.

This suggests that fragile "assault" based armies like Marines and Eldar will tend to get wiped out before they can get to grips, as will the slower IG armies. Orks and Chaos may possibly do better, especially if they can start garrisoned forward. However, I would be intruiged to see what happens if you match up TRC's "broken" Siegies list with one of the above Tau - it will be a case of who can shoot the most first - - - - :)

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Ginger
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:13 pm 
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E&C, Have you tried out any of your AMTL games against these 'powered up' Tau? If so, what happened? The point here being that the AMTL are designed to absorb punishment, and their weaponry ought to be good enough to pick off Tau shooters - in effect, beating the Tau at their own game.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Tau lists that should be overpowered
PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:21 pm 
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(asaura @ Jun. 11 2008,12:43)
QUOTE
Hey, if that list is overpowered, then count me in for playtesting it. I'd refine it a bit, to max the abusive aspects that I see:

Crisis + drones
Crisis + drones
Crisis + drones

Moray
Moray
Barracudas

Stealthsuits
Broadsides + drones (BTS)

Hammerhead support
Hammerheads + swordfish

If this is uber, which I don't believe without seeing it first, then I agree that Tau 4.4.2 is broken. Specifically, that it is broken by favoring Crisis suits over plain infantry.

I'll need some time to get all the models in shape, but let's play!

To be honest the list doesn't seem that bad. Certainly nothing like the 'nasty' lists I've used.

Certainly I can't understand why no skyray, just seems foolish to not have one.

I would definatively drop the hammerhead support for the tigersharks, skyray, drones etc. Also why no Hero? With the at letwo formations with markerlights in addition to the hero its a very nasty peice of work against tough WE's that can threaten the Tau..


(Ginger @ Jun. 11 2008,15:09)
QUOTE
However, I would be intruiged to see what happens if you match up TRC's "broken" Siegies list with one of the above Tau - it will be a case of who can shoot the most first - - - - :)

If its a GM army the siegers get toasted - all the guns are LV's and once lit its all over. Likewise horribly vulnerable to aircraft strafing runs, just not enough flak in a siege army to do more than make air assaults a bit tougher - especially when facing formations of WE fliers.




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