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Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:23 pm 
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Played a 4k battle yesterday with Reddeth.

One thing came up regarding CF that sort of perplexed us. Basically, if you declare a CF you may end up losing the activations of 1-2 units if you break the target with the first formation's attack.

To be fair, I don't think this should happen. A Marine commander's Combined engagement doesn't leave any formation swinging in the breeze without an activation.

I propose we adjust the rule to give unused formations their activation back by changing the rule to say something like:

"If the target formation breaks, those formations yet to attack may act normally."
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Tooninki
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:55 pm 
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Seconded!
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Mephiston
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:24 pm 
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My reading was that once 'combined' the formations would act like one formation as per combined assault. All would shoot, all hits would then be applied and resolved.

Have I missed something?
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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:38 pm 
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This potential disadvantage of co-fire is intentional. All formations are declared first, and cannot be changed even if the first round of fire destroys the original target. This balances the other advantages of the ability.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:41 pm 
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Coordinated fire is already an incredibly powerful ability... I don't think it needs any more help!

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:28 am 
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So Combined engagement needs to be changed as well in your opinion E&C? I'm guessing I know your answer already...
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:31 am 
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So Combined engagement needs to be changed as well in your opinion E&C? I'm guessing I know your answer already...


Combined Engagement has the downside of having to intermingle yourself, opening yourself up to an Engagement wherein you're vulnerable to 'hackdowns', three formations breaking as you lose the engagement, and other such fun.

Coodinated Fire on the other hand allows you to be a Tau-friendly 15cm apart... that's the main power of the rule IMHO.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:35 am 
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That's provided you are intermingled at the end of your engagement...
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:10 am 
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No... in order to use the Combined Engagement order you have to be within 5cm of the friendly formation... that means if you lose the strategy roll, your enemy can easily steamroll you.

It makes it a harder / riskier rule to use than Coordinated Fire.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:45 am 
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that means if you lose the strategy roll, your enemy can easily steamroll you


Unless you're tau... :D Then they don't have the ability to "steamroller" anything in engagement.
And that's provided the enemy is willing, and in range, to steamroller you....

It makes it a harder / riskier rule to use than Coordinated Fire.
And I disagree here as Tau need to utilise their fire power to its utmost or THEY get steamrollered - especially if they are forced to sit around doing nothing. At least in a mingled engagement you can fight back... Having an entire formation do nothing for a turn with its ass in the breeze is hardly a fair trade off.
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Chroma
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 2:58 am 
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(Dobbsy @ Mar. 03 2008,01:45)
QUOTE
And I disagree here as Tau need to utilise their fire power to its utmost or THEY get steamrollered - especially if they are forced to sit around doing nothing. At least in a mingled engagement you can fight back... Having an entire formation do nothing for a turn with its ass in the breeze is hardly a fair trade off.

You're not necessarily "hanging in the breeze", you can still double to reposition and lob shots at the broken enemy formation.

Normally, if I was going to use co-ordinated fire, I'd only do it with two formations at a time.

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asaura
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:43 pm 
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I don't see a need for this change. It complicates the coord. fire rule for little real benefit.

When you declare a Coord. Fire, you commit those formations to the job. If you get lucky with the first shooting, why should the others get to 'uncommit'?

The same thing can happen with Commander assaults. You have a Marine Assault det and a Bike det. You call a combined assault to get some Sentinels. You happen to roll four sixes with the four attacks by the Assault marines and kill the Sentinels. Turns out that you didn't "need" the bikes at all. Was their activation "wasted"? No. It was not. You chose to use all that force to raise the probability of achieving your goal. Exactly the same thing applies to Coordinated Fire.

I've used Coordinated Fire heavily just to get to move early in the turn with many troops. The ability is very powerful in its current form. There is no need for this tweak.
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asaura
 Post subject: Co-ordinated fire adjustment?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:04 am 
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(Hena @ Mar. 07 2008,18:13)
QUOTE

Hena, yes, it does. It's quite clear. However, it's written in the bad old SM2 tradition. Exceptions to the core rules are bad.
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