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newbie starting

barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 9:49 am

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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

just like to say hi to everyone playing tau.

i havent played epic since the first edition, hated epic 40k so ended up selling all of my collection, i went to my local gaming store and there are a few guys who are playing it. i watched a couple of games being played and really liked it. so id thought id give it a go. as i have a tau 40k army it would be the logical choice to play them, but dont know really where to begin with army selection.

ive read a few of the other topics and my impression is that not many players take fire warriors and have a large amount of battlesuits.

when making a list is it best to take just a basic cadre, support or to max it out with the full amount of upgrades?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:08 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

You're biggest consideration is cost. How much money have you got? In brief tanks are the best points for pound option, and infantry can be easily proxied (lots of ideas here, do a search for a thread).

Then I would say don't play to the list. It isn't finished, points values and abilities will change (oft for the worse relative to current power levels).

Instead what is the style you like?

Personally in Epic I like either 'extreme assault' or 'complete stand off', the latter being siegemasters and former being any army after about 30-60 minutes of my opponent not doing much.

There are lots of general army building articles about. these will go into activation levels vs formation size (cost) and so on. Tau rules currently lend themselves to lots of small cheap activations as stuff like co-ord fire, skimmer, speed etc removes many of the weakness's of this formation size.

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barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:45 pm

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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

thnx

one of the guys from the club advised me not to do tau as they were still "work in progress". he didnt know much about them as he has never looked at the list.

i was initally looking at getting a "stand off" army as to me tau dont really do the "extreme assault". with some quick units to grab objectives near the end of the game.

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Evil and Chaos

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 1:52 pm

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Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire

That is pretty much how the Tau player is my group palys his games... stands off with Hammerheads and Morays all game, dances in the centre-ground with Crisis suits, and grabs some objectives near the end of the game.

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barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 9:38 am

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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

ive been looking at the list.
as a new player im finding it very strange that a fire warrior cadre isnt compulsory. do players take them as supporting units instead?
when you read all the fluff about them they make up the backbone of the army. it looks like you could field an entire army with no fire warriors at all!
if this happens how do fire warriors gain enough experience to pilot a crisis suit?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:15 am

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Doom. Seriously. Its a massive hit on Tau worlds. Counter strike was a complete flop as they always surrendered for the greater good when playing terrorists.

Yes that which you mention is a flaw in the list. Currently it favours a high activation AV based force. Firewarriors are excellent infantry, brilliant when mechanised, at least when compared to other races (who else fields a fearless mechanised formation?), but sadly not the most 'optimal' choice. They are great and if you take them you will not be disappointed, but if you want to 'powergame' your list it is the wrong option.

Hence the advice to abandon playing to the current list, picking a representative force and going with that. Hopefully the Tau list will be sorted out and when that happens you will have a good force selection.

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Soren

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 11:19 am

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Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria

The TAU list is not finished yet and the TAU community defends the list flexibility with claw and teeth. So don?t be surprised if you find dozen of entried you will never find in other lists (including units you have never heard of)

To be honest TAU are a miserable (but beautiful) choice to begin. A always changing list, changing stats, hundreds of choices and expensive miniatures are not the best options I fear.

only my 0,002 cent

Soren

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CyberShadow

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 4:48 pm

Swarm Tyrant

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9348
Location: Singapore

as a new player im finding it very strange that a fire warrior cadre isnt compulsory. do players take them as supporting units instead?
when you read all the fluff about them they make up the backbone of the army. it looks like you could field an entire army with no fire warriors at all!

This is true. You could field an army with no Fire Warriors, in the same way that you can field a Marine force with no Tactical squads and an Eldar army with no Guardians.

Making the Fire Warriors compulsary would make the list pretty much identicle no matter who played it. In addition, with a Fire Warrior formation weighing in at twenty four pounds, plus DevilFish, no-one would really want to be forced to take this.

If you want a force with loads of Fire Warriors, please go ahead! You certainly wont find me objecting! ?

Yes that which you mention is a flaw in the list. Currently it favours a high activation AV based force.

You say tomatoe, I say tomatoe (that really doesnt work when typed! ?

). You say flaw, I say in the spirit of the background. Hell, Chris, weren't you one of the voices singing for a forced mechanised FW formation?

Hence the advice to abandon playing to the current list, picking a representative force and going with that. Hopefully the Tau list will be sorted out and when that happens you will have a good force selection.

Good advice indeed. Buy what you like the look of or background for.

The TAU list is not finished yet and the TAU community defends the list flexibility with claw and teeth.

This comment puzzles me. I assume by this you mean the decision not to split the list into several, specialised versions? This is not just about one 'flexible' list. I am actually not defending list flexibility with 'claw and teeth' and one thing that I am trying to bring in is more specialisation and focus into the units, but not necessarily the list itself.

So don?t be surprised if you find dozen of entried you will never find in other lists (including units you have never heard of)

Ahhh. Like the Marine Lander, or Marine Hunter, or Eldar Storm Serpent, or Chaos Decimator, or Death Wheel. Should I continue? We have the Scorpionfish, the Stingray, Swordfish and Moray. Four new units. The Black Legion list gave us two new vehicles, and two 'new' titans - Reaver and Warhound equivalents.

Epic has always been the place for the addition of new units for the 40K background.

To be honest TAU are a miserable (but beautiful) choice to begin. A always changing list, changing stats, hundreds of choices and expensive miniatures are not the best options I fear.

The list is changing, sure. However, not in huge ways. I doubt that any units will change their category type - for example from infantry to AV. The rest is just numbers. We are sticking to the theme of the units - Pathfinders will be sneaky, Broadsides are heavy hitters, etc - so even these changes are 'tweaks' rather than large movements.

Personally, I think that the Tau are an excellent option, and are a list with character and definition, and look great on the table. What more could a gamer want?

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 5:11 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

(CyberShadow @ Nov. 20 2007,21:48)

QUOTE

Yes that which you mention is a flaw in the list. Currently it favours a high activation AV based force.

You say tomatoe, I say tomatoe (that really doesnt work when typed!

). You say flaw, I say in the spirit of the background. Hell, Chris, weren't you one of the voices singing for a forced mechanised FW formation?

I still am - well for the core choice, they can be stripped of them in support. If anything if all choices were more balanced you would see Mech FW a lot more as its a very nifty formation, especially if you have trained with guard mech!

However I don't see how that conflicts with the assertion that currently the list works best as a high activation AV force. With any luck I will get to demonstrate this to you when I am in the UK next!

If the aim incidentally is to have a list that is an excellent high activation AV based army, well it has worked.

Incidentally CS would it be worth having a designers notes section in the list where you state the 'vision' or whatever we call it? I.e. the sort of lists it is intended to build? Currently it says '3rd phase expansion' and stuff which kinda relies on having a thorough knowledge of Tau stuff. If that's not the right sort of thing how about a section about the type of lists that would characterise the tau way of war (which could curiously enough be what we all build anyway)?

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Breten

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 10:25 pm

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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm
Posts: 177

While the list isn't finished ir isn't horribly unbalanced. As long as you don't powergame the list and go all cheesy/beardy, it's pretty balanced as is. I always take a unit of Firewarriors. They're great.

Buy what you like or can afford and go from there. Maybe try proxing it a couple times and see what you like. If you build a nice solid flexible list you'll be fine and won't have your opponents worried that your list is overkill.

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barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 1:57 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

cheers for all the advise guys

im not a powergamer i just like taking a balanced force in keeping with the fluff.
when apocalypse came out i thought that if you wanted to have massive games of 40k then you might aswell play epic so here i am.

on the subject of making firewarriors compulsory and that you would end up with players all fielding the same army i would disagree with that. when playing a 3000pt game, a firewarrior cadre will probably take up 10%-15% of your total points. which is the same as taking the cumpulsory FW squad with DF in a 1500pt game of 40k. on top of which you have to then still take a commander battlesuit. you dont see the same tau armies in 40k so you wouldnt in epic either.
it coming out at ?24 for the squad doesnt do it any favours though:(

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 6:24 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Oh here is a thread on cheap infantry

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barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 1:36 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

cheers for that chris. i managed to pick up a pack from my local gaming store

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barriew

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 9:47 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 1:51 pm
Posts: 7
Location: northampton

quick question.

i have a fire warriors cadre in devilfishs. i want to add an ethereal upgrade. but now there is no option to put the ethereal in a devilfish too!

so the only way you can upgrade a fire warrior cadre with an ethereal is if you have it on foot (or hoof, if you want to get technical) right?

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Soren

Post subject: newbie starting

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:16 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:42 am
Posts: 694
Location: Austria

Ethereal is an upgrade to one stand in the formation. You do not get another stand if you buy him.

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