Tactical Command
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New Idea
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=10280
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Author:  Xisor [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:40 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Right, it's not well thought out, it's also one I came up with at work (warhouse operative, woo... :confuse: ) not long after reading the novel Star of Damocles.

But what is this idea?

Seperate Tau Lists

Simply put, from seeing the issues arising from the AMHC, Fire Warriors, Vespids and sometimes other components...perhaps the original direction was too broad? It tried to incorporate too many things?

Perhaps, keep all the restrictions as 'meta-options' available to 'a Tau player', yet heavily restricting the combinations. Particularly in how many options are selectable in one list. Indeed, it'd allow for certain aspects, tactics and options to be focused upon, incorporating what we know of Tau flexibility, but without complicating the actual playing of the game.

So, more to the point, the idea!

Three Lists: Farsight, Shadowsun, Icewind

The point? Make each sufficiently tactically different to allow the player a bit of a choice, but let the lists themselves be a bit restricted. Presumably these lists would be tied to their 'names' as a school-of-thought or something, but we could also think up new names to better suit the actual game to be played.

Indeed, two lists depicting broad strategies might work too.

But, me not being a very brilliant Epic player, or indeed any sort of authority, I thought I'd run it past you lot to see if you think there's any sort of merit in such an approach? Or, indeed, if I'm making no sense! And, also, if it's simply a really, really bad idea...

Author:  blackhorizon [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:48 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Again, that metagame word..... It is the 2007 hype... :)

No worries, I kinda like the idea of 3 lists but I can also see a lot of objections.

Author:  Moscovian [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

I like it too, but it has been discussed to death and ultimately (see here) neither CS nor a healthy portion of the community is for splitting it up.

While somebody could conceivably make a new Tau list independent of the current list, it would be more restrictive and harder to play than the all inclusive list there is now.  You aren't going to find too many people who take it.

Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 6:56 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

This idea does come up every now and again, and broadly I do support it. However, my goal right now is to get one list sorted.

The list currently being developed will represent a 'typical' force list. I view the Taros list a one 'specialist' list representing a particular campaign. I would be very interested in variant lists such as the Farsight Enclave, and a Kroot only list. However, I would not want to difuse development by working on these until this main list is complete.

Author:  blackhorizon [ Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:13 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Exactly: One main list ensures more balance for all units, specialised lists could give bonuses or restrictions on some to ensure balance within the special list.

Author:  Dobbsy [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Seperate Tau Lists


Burn that heretic! :laugh:

Author:  Soren [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:51 am ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Not again....

Author:  Honda [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Let's get "the" list in the can. Then you have a foundation to base the other lists on.

Let's not go the path of the Eldar...

Author:  Soren [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:43 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

I am for "One list to rule them all, One list to find them,
One list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."  :glare:

Author:  Honda [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 6:17 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

I am for "One list to rule them all, One list to find them,
One list to bring them all and in the darkness bind them."  

I would vote for this one as the best retort  :D

Author:  Xisor [ Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:40 pm ]
Post subject:  New Idea

I don't quite see the reasoning that this almighty one list is actually more...achievable than three smaller, more compacted and restricted lists?

In fact, I see a lengthy discussion that has faltered of late because no-one sees to be finding anything conclusive on matters of balance and style.

Again, with the not again: Any links to other discussions, or just simple (and unproductive!) remarks?

I mean: AMHC- Should it exist or not? Core or not? Plenty of answers, and as spanish friends have told me: "Opinions are like arses, everyone has one". A solution viable with seperate lists would be to contain a scattering of possibilities and army-formats.

That is:
- Shadowsun Format: Air 'Assault' and manouvers focused. Crisis cadre core. (Formations designed to easily fit Mantas and Orcas, prevalence of Morays over the other lists)
- Icewind Format: Highly Mechanised (AMHC Core, plenty of Piranhas etc)
- Farsight Format: Troop focused. Lots of auxiliaries. Fire Warrior core.

Between the lists the actual formation sizes would change, viable tactics would change and even then there is opportunity for varying the stat-lines of the actual units. So whilst Battlesuits could be Core, in an Icewind army they might only be TL-Missiel Pod monat suits. For Farsight they might be more akin to what we have presently. For Shadowsun...something else entirely?

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I don't see why these ideas aren't more easily achievable, balance-wise, than an epic and all-encompassing list.

Indeed, have an 'all in one list' seems more difficult to balance, unless I'm missing something? Indeed, actually maintaining balance between options in a larger list would be very difficult.

So, if only as a thought experiment rather than an actual change of direction, what would be the major 'easily seperable' directions that the Tau list could actually be split up into?

NB- For the puposes of this discussion I'm taking 'core' to be the "one formation of core allows two of the others and perhaps one auxiliary" core from the army list, not just core from a tactical point of view.

My initial reaction is to swicth the focus of the 'core' of the army. So the three seperate lists would have three distinct 'core' formations (AMHC, Well Rounded Crisis Suits, Fire Warriors) whilst their ancilliary options (smaller hammerhead formations, weaker crisis suit formations, smaller/larger Fire Warrior units amongst the already-present non-core options [Piranhas, Stealths, Broadsides etc]).

Indeed, specifically the 'Firewarrior' problem and 'why does no-one take Fire Warriors' can be resolved by having one list that rewards Fire Warriors, and one list that is close to similarly effective which works but with Crisis Suits and whatnot.

As you see, I'm not deterred by idle hofflenosh! I seek new ideas and movement on the sides of the debate! Being entrenched in my PoV never served me well in my life, I don't imagine it really served anyone else well either...in the end.

Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:07 am ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Well you're free to playtest what ever you want Xisor. Just be aware the rest of us may not be so willing to do so....

You're entitled to your POV, as are we. However, at this stage you may have to put up with the rest of us being unwilling to follow your view.

Author:  Xisor [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 12:45 am ]
Post subject:  New Idea

I'm hardly asking you to follow or change the list, I'm asking you to consider an alternative...or did I make a mistake in there somewhere?

(And if the alternative is worthwhile it'd be the next logical step to ask for followers and change, but if it's a terrible idea it'll get thrown out with the rest)





Author:  Moscovian [ Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  New Idea

Xisor, as many here are familiar I am in full agreement.  

But point after point has been brought up before.  Not to pick on CS, but he is the developer, so here is but one example:

The AMHC core formation - CS explicitly said he is not going to move it from the core formations at this time.  Despite the fact that I disagree with this, I need to respect his decision just as he should respect a decision we make with the Dark Eldar.  

Dobbsy is right though - if you think that the list will achieve better balance, nobody is going to censor you if you make a new list and playtest it.  Heck, I'd be willing to playtest it if it had some semblance of balance.  Of course if you miss the fiction deadline for Raiders because of your Tau bug I might have to come across the pond lookin' for ya... :p

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