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Fire Warriors
Tactica
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Tue Jun 06, 2006 9:56 pm 
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problem 1 - in game terms, there are plent of things that would FF better than a FW, so make them a FF4+, and ou open a larger can of worms.

from a principle perspective, who wants to see Tau E:A armies rushing to FF or combat and sacriced based play? that's exactly what your talking about.

That's why the 2x 30cm 5+ AP shot per stand and Pulse carbine going away or at least being religated to a FF weapon makes the most sense. Leave the rest alone.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 11:51 am 
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So CS what are your thoughts - what should we be trying out?

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Tue Jun 13, 2006 4:42 pm 
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I am still trying to digest this thread.  :80:

I am strongly against any change in the FF value of the FWs. Personally, I usually play a 'pure' Tau force, and perhaps this is why I have not encountered the issues stated, since the FW are the only ones that do their job.

I find myself agreeing with Tactica:

That's why the 2x 30cm 5+ AP shot per stand and Pulse carbine going away or at least being religated to a FF weapon makes the most sense. Leave the rest alone.


This is my current favoured change in direction, but I will have a more in-depth think about it (away from work  :angry:  ).

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 10:51 am 
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Well if you are free Tuesday next I can demonstrate to you the effectiveness of non pure Tau forces :)

Does anyone not think the FW should be 2x5+ 30cm? Anyone? :)

On a different note would that make them a good alternative to humans and pathfinders?

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:19 am 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 14 June 2006 (10:51))
Well if you are free Tuesday next I can demonstrate to you the effectiveness of non pure Tau forces :)

Does anyone not think the FW should be 2x5+ 30cm? Anyone? :)

On a different note would that make them a good alternative to humans and pathfinders?

Combind with dropping Pathfinders to just having Railrifles as a primary attack means, definitely. Means you get 4x AP 5+ attacks off 4 Pathfinders, but get 16x AP 5+ shots off 8 Firewarriors for very slightly more points (25 extra points). Firewarriors become extremely nice to put on your garrisons on Overwatch, since they're extremely lethal against infantry. I like it a lot.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 11:50 am 
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I do think Fire Warriors should have FF4+. Their weapons are more powerful than a Marine's Boltgun, and they unleash a greater ammount of fire due to their numbers... why shouldn't they get the same FF value as Marines?

Tau Fire Warriors should be a true nightmare to face in a firefight.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:04 pm 
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I like the new idea for 2x 30cm AP5+ shots and pulse carbine reduced to small arms.

And I'm almost convinced that they shouldn't have FF4+ :p

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:40 pm 
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I do think Fire Warriors should have FF4+...

This has been brought up so many times...

Please read over the rest of the thread, it has been explained (more than once!) exactly why FWs with FF4+ is NOT going to happen. (Barring a complete redesign of the entire Tau list)

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:08 pm 
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In fact, a mere seven posts before...

Orde

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baronpiero
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 1:20 pm 
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E and C
why shouldn't they get the same FF value as Marines?


In short: because they're Tau.

By design, it was decided that Tau FF values should be made artificially low to represent them lacking individual initiative required during engage actions. For the moment, only Kroot and human aux see their CC and FF abilities correctly represented in Epic. All other units rougthly have -1 FF to what could be normally expected considering their weaponry.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:02 pm 
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Quote (baronpiero @ 14 June 2006 (13:20))
By design, it was decided that Tau FF values should be made artificially low to represent them lacking individual initiative required during engage actions. For the moment, only Kroot and human aux see their CC and FF abilities correctly represented in Epic. All other units rougthly have -1 FF to what could be normally expected considering their weaponry.

I still think that their CC is to high (it should be - or 7+). ?At the moment they are better than IG in close combat, thanks to their armour.

Though oddly enough they do have the same chance of dying in 40K one on one. ???

EDIT: Though the IG do have a slight edge as they hit first.




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:42 pm 
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Quote (ragnarok @ 14 June 2006 (14:02))
Quote (baronpiero @ 14 June 2006 (13:20))
By design, it was decided that Tau FF values should be made artificially low to represent them lacking individual initiative required during engage actions. For the moment, only Kroot and human aux see their CC and FF abilities correctly represented in Epic. All other units rougthly have -1 FF to what could be normally expected considering their weaponry.

I still think that their CC is to high (it should be - or 7+). ?At the moment they are better than IG in close combat, thanks to their armour.

Though oddly enough they do have the same chance of dying in 40K one on one. ???

EDIT: Though the IG do have a slight edge as they hit first.

Their armor is better then IG in 40K though, significantly. As far as how often they lose to IG, their ability to 'tie' IG in assaults is only because of their superior armor levels. But you're probably right. Tau really should be like 7+ for melee ability. Though that'd likely make them crumple too easily against enemies with good ways to reach melee.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 2:47 pm 
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We need a banner scrolling at the top of the Tau forum saying why we can't do FF4+ :)

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:53 pm 
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Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 14 June 2006 (14:47))
We need a banner scrolling at the top of the Tau forum saying why we can't do FF4+ :)

:evil: I'm sure Firesight's Firewarriors can FF4+. ?Infact my Cadres will go and join his enclave.

No auxilias, better FF, no Etherals. ?The fire caste in charge. ?It will be great. ? :(8: ?:p

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Fire Warriors
PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2006 7:56 pm 
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Quote (ragnarok @ 14 June 2006 (19:53))
Quote (The_Real_Chris @ 14 June 2006 (14:47))
We need a banner scrolling at the top of the Tau forum saying why we can't do FF4+ :)

:evil: I'm sure Firesight's Firewarriors can FF4+. ?Infact my Cadres will go and join his enclave.

No auxilias, better FF, no Etherals. ?The fire caste in charge. ?It will be great. ? :(8: ?:p

Hmm... Actually I think Farsights warriors are really only better against Orks currently... THey got kinda gimped in the new Codex. Even in the old one, though, they would just be CC 6+ instead of CC -  :;):
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