If you take it as insulting to add to your persecution complex that's your business, I stand by the comment though. To continually dismiss disagreeing statements from any UK player with the snide Epic UK comment is at best lazy and ignorant, I certainly wouldn't dismiss any input due to nationality or, for example lump you or Frog bear together with Onyx. It's no UK plot despite what you may think just experienced players who disagree with your 'batreps' and the knee jerk attacks on the balance of tau, Necrons, AMTL and whatever is next.

I don't know what reply you want regarding terrain, I not sure the net ERC has the power to enforce global terrain norms on everybody.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

There is going to be another modified version of the developmental list up in a few weeks where I amend the Manta cost down to 650pts to harmonise the Vior'la and Third phase lists as agreed with Matt. I am also thinking of a few other minor changes mostly points drops to a few other options in light of a lot of feedback about the list being underpowered (even if I might not agree, feedback at this point probably justifies it).

After the next developmental version goes up I will be making no further changes and then looking to submit the list for approved status about 3-4 months after that assuming no feedback saying the list is suddenly overpowered. After that it is up to the ERC, there are quite a few changes in this version and they may require more testing or even shoot some of the changes down.

But that is the time scale I am looking at.

Great thanks

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

Well, I find myself with enough seconds to come on the board and read some Tau stuff (disturbing my old hobby is a fantasy version of my job...). A reason from history for costing the Manta at more than 650 was to stop the purchase of a Hero cruiser, manta and barracuda. I see here the Protector is 225, so is not a problem and makes the combo the same cost again.

As to the negative comments about Tau... Quite surprising really. The army never seemed to have problems with being underpowered, quite the reverse really in testing. If you take a force mixing air power, mech and infantry with enough markerlights they were fine. The comments about teleporters also rather puzzling as the number of scouts in the force and skimmers made stuff like terminators wait till turn 2 or 3 to arrive. And when they did of course things like overwatched firewarriors would make nice little hedgehogs.

They still do well in many matchups, but over time there have been an increase in armies that are exclusively or almost exclusively vehicles or Warengines, which ignore tau's high qualtity AP firepower, and Tau can't fall back on assault in the way other armies would.
There has also been an increase in Titans and Reinforced armour across the board, which was a real problem for Tau due to the scarcity of TK in the list, but has recently been improved by changes to Hammerheads.

I've done quite a lot of comparisons of weapons on vehicles during the change-process, which I can dig out if you want, but the short version is that it's probably safe to say they had some matchups that made them look good but decreased in power relative to other tournament armies over time, and are now improving due to a few subtle tweaks.
They're no Biel Tan, but they are certainly viable.

Again, been out a few years, but still surprising. The AT firepower weakness was always apparent - hence most armies relied heavily on airborn anti armour (I never play without a-10's or a manta), a hero with the anti shadowsword/eldar SHT pin point attacks, then a hammerhead formation (ions never got a look in) and several 5 piranha/1 tetra and 1-2 3 piranha/3 tetra.

While you didn't kill much armour you could bm it heavily leading to loss of activations and firepower.

Unless of course there has been a rise of 1+ activation, fearless, ra, war engine armies. In what case they are stuffed like many armies Epic always having problems dealing with such beasts!

I can't sadly find my old batreps with the search function as I would have been interested to see what I was taking and playing against. But certainly the old armour/RA forces like the guard tank army were drawing forces where play revolved around failed activations, knocking off fast units, etc. They were also poor at taking out infantry, have they had a big boost in AP weaponry?

So how does a list like this fair now? I note the costs seem to have gone up a bit, knocking off an activation from memory, but as you say the firepower has too. Of course I always prefered the drop Manta lists. Lots of potential hi-jinks with that and most players couldn't cope with the thought of a manta dropping somewhat awkward, normally turn 2, (achieved by a late activation retain turn 1, so if it fails auto arrive turn 2).

Protector
A-10s
Barracuda
Orca
Crisis, SC, Drones
FW Mech, Skyray, Bonded
FW
Railhead, Skyray
Railhead, Skyray
Recon 3/3
Recon 5/1
Recon 5/1

I've been using a very similar list
Mech FW + FW+ Skyray + bonded
Mech FW + Skyray
Crisis + ST
Pathfinders
Railheads + Skyray
Railheads + Skyray
Orca
Hero
Recon 5 tetra 1 piranha
Recon 1 p 5 t
Recon 4 t 2 p

It's gone 4 wins 1 loss 2 draws in tournaments and similar in general gaming, it is a struggle to kill lots of big WEs but generally can beat them with movement, scout, BMs and a activations

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Re drones and tiggersharks - the drones have the normal 15cm jump pack disembark and don't need to maintain coherency with the tsharks? But presumably can't cross zocs or anything...

And I assume the gun drones are claiming crossfire between the tsharks and the drones or do you mean between the drones and a third friendly formation?

Does the gundrone formation count as part of the air 1/3?

Drones can deploy up to 15cm from the Tigersharks as normal for jump pack equipped troops, but as written you would need to maintain coherency (might amend that next update). As they are deployed directly within 15cm they could potentially be deployed across to the other side of a ZOC.

Gun Drones and Tigersharks are a single formation until the shooting is over, so no they can't claim a crossfire using each other, you will need another separate formation in a position relative to where you drop the Drones (not just the Tigershark position) to claim a crossfire.

Yes the Gun Drone formation is purchased as part of the air limit.

Why wouldn't the drones need to stay in coherency? Don't see this any different to other armies' drop troops mechanic, like assault marines and stormboyz.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list