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Discussions on the Tau.
zombocom
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 12:09 am 
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(Jstr19 @ May 22 2008,10:20)
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I would be concerned with crisis suits being a bit too fragile without "operation get behind the robots". Macro shots would rip them appart.

Why shouldn't Macro shots rip them apart? It seems to me that Macro weapons should be the weakness of suits.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:19 am 
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Actually I don't really habe a viable answer as to why macro's should rip apart suits. Its just that at the moment the seem pretty much imune to damage. I only loose them when I make a mistake or my opponent spends alot of time trying to shoot them.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 4:34 pm 
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Wow, that sounds an awful lot like the Scorpfish as it exists now.


The Scorpionfish isn't an attack cruiser in the vein of a AC-130, it's an artillery barge in the vein of... well, those artillery barges that the US nearly built a few years ago (Called 'em arsenal ships or something), but didn't.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:35 am 
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If we want to continue the Scorpfish-as-AC130 discussion, an AC130U (the most recent variant) has a 25mm gatling, either a 30mm Bushmaster or a Bofors 40mm, and a 105mm howitzer.  On the aircraft mounts, the whole package has a rough engagement range of 3k-4k meters, with little variation (yeah, even the 105 only reaches that far).  The whole mess is tied into a precision firecontrol system (I think they lifted the 105's FCS off a M60 patton tank!) that can reliably hit a man-sized target at those 2k-3k meters.

to more closely approximate an AC130, I'd remove the hunter missiles entirely (AC130s have never been photo'd with a sidewinder, so why AA on the Scorp?), and reduce the missile barrage to 2 Tracer, 4 Seeker, 4 Subs; or maybe 3/5/5 if 2/4/4 is too extreme.

Re:  Crisis suits.
I much prefer two ranged attacks (45cm AP5/AT5 and 30cm AP5), and a MW FF attack (fusion blaster shouldn't really be capable of doing anything outside FF range, even a 15cm shot) over either the 4.4.2 version or the 4.4.1 version.

Also, Macro weapons are the only ranged weapon in 40k that are capable of killing battlesuits (after you ablate away the shield drones!).

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:38 am 
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So maybe, I missed this ... but will we see a "Tau & Kroot " RAIDER supplement ! ? ?:alien: ???   The AC-130 paradigm is an interesting concept.  It all depends which way you want to go with it ...




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:28 am 
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to more closely approximate an AC130, I'd remove the hunter missiles entirely (AC130s have never been photo'd with a sidewinder, so why AA on the Scorp?), and reduce the missile barrage to 2 Tracer, 4 Seeker, 4 Subs; or maybe 3/5/5 if 2/4/4 is too extreme.


I agree that that weapon loadout is less broken, but to be a real AC130, it needs to be 'Speed: Bomber' or a Support Craft, not a barge that hides at the back of the board out of LOS lobbing missiles.


You know what the real AC130 is in the Tau list?

It's the Moray!


The Scorpionfish is just a stationary artillery barge.



Re:  Crisis suits.
I much prefer two ranged attacks (45cm AP5/AT5 and 30cm AP5), and a MW FF attack (fusion blaster shouldn't really be capable of doing anything outside FF range, even a 15cm shot) over either the 4.4.2 version or the 4.4.1 version.

I 100% agree.

However, this only works if you change the 10cm jump back rule in the manner JSTR19 suggests.

If you don't, the unit ends up broken.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:15 pm 
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the crisis suit weapons lay out should be plasma rifles 30cm AP4+ and and Missile pods AP4+/AT5+ IMHO. They should be brutal against infantry and AP5+ just doesn't cut it they would still be as undergunned as they are currently. Remember that all the crisis suits carry two weapons and are twin linked in 40gay if they are the same type which I think is assumed in Epic.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:33 pm 
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Jstr's coming along, he's 'Ryan'.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:06 pm 
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Eldar aren't faster. Currently the Tau Jetpack rule gives them a theoretical speed of unlimited. If you keep engaging them they keep moving. To my mind this seems a bit strange.
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Ginger
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:26 pm 
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the same could be said to be true of the Eldar - if you keep assaulting and losing to them, they also keep moving full distance. For some of those (like Revenants) this is up to 35 cms a go.

However, for the Tau, the question is really whether jet pack troops mange to jump back outside assault range or not. I would have thought they would run the risk of jumping back to putting themselves in a "clipping" situation with a limited number of Tau units left in combat - very risky usually.

As Hena says, I look forwards to seeing the three Tau armies in action on the "experimental" Sunday.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:36 pm 
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You don't realy risk clipping. In my experience I jump forward normally kill alot of the targets. Make sure I kill the tanks. Then my opponent has an effective engagement range of 30cm. 15cm move then 15cm FF. If you think that the crisis suits have a 10cm jump back and a MW range of 15cm, I put my suits in range of 2-3 bases of the enemy banking on killing at least than many. I hardly ever get caught out using this rule.  

And as far as the Eldar rule goes I thought they needed to initiate the engagement to get the additional move. The Tau get an interupt move in your opponents turn.

The only way we have found to deal with units with this ability is to air engage them because as the rules are it sound that they get the move as soon as the engagement is declared and before your opponent moves. E&C has begun declaring an engagment with units in a thunderhawk. I jump back then he lands the thunderhawk on the unit.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 3:52 pm 
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(Jstr19 @ May 26 2008,15:36)
QUOTE
And as far as the Eldar rule goes I thought they needed to initiate the engagement to get the additional move. The Tau get an interupt move in your opponents turn.

Not true, the eldar get the move whether they instigate the assault or not, as long as they win.

Doesn't make the tau jetpack rule any less broken though.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: Discussions on the Tau.
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:05 pm 
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The Eldar & Tau are the only real Hi-tech forces in the Game. A game between those 2 must be a pretty interesting match (all my Tau are SIB!). ?So what is the status of Tau rules/rule book !? ?:alien: ? If any ?




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