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Skyray
Honda	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 12:57 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	More than happy to try this version.  Especially as it is really close to what I suggested last month So are you saying that if you wait long enough, that we usually do what you want? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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clausewitz	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 1:37 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	LOL, if only life was that easy Anyway its all for one and one for all here isn't it.. the greater good and all that. (It was just something that I had spent some time arguing/discussing when the pervious skyray discussion was going on.  So I was feeling somewhat vindicated and couldnt help pointing that out.)
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CyberShadow	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Tue Dec 20, 2005 11:11 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9349 Location: Singapore	Yes, I went through many of the older threads to get up to speed on this, and this suggestion seemed to solve the problems and get support here. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Tactica	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 1:20 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	and props to Cw and CS for getting us over the d@mn skyray hump then! Hats off! Now, to get it into an updated v4.3.2 list in time for post holiday gaming sessions, CS .   _________________ Rob
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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:31 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	Somewhat random point - is it better than an equally costed Hunter in the marines? More guns, skimmer, vs They shall know no fear? _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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clausewitz	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 11:42 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	TRC - Tactica and I had a long discussion about that comparison.  Basically the skyray has more guns, but needs higher numbers to hit.  And has skimmer instead of ATSKNF.  And the skyray is fairly dependant on markerlights. That said the Hunter is most probably the weakest AAA unit in E:A (in terms of effectiveness/points), the the skyray is more in line with the hydra in terms of effectiveness for cost.
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Breten	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 7:23 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm Posts: 177	Quote (CyberShadow @ 19 Dec. 2005 (21:02)) Smart Missile System - 30cm - AP4+ 2x Hunter Missiles - 75cm - AA5+ 2x Seeker Missiles - 75cm - AT6+ - Guided missile So this changes from the single Hunters and Seekers in the WIP 4.3.1 to 2 shots each, and takes out the AT6+ from the Hunter, am I correct? ?Just want to make sure.
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Steele	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 8:47 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany	Quote (Breten @ 21 Dec. 2005 (19:23)) Quote (CyberShadow @ 19 Dec. 2005 (21:02)) Smart Missile System - 30cm - AP4+ 2x Hunter Missiles - 75cm - AA5+ 2x Seeker Missiles - 75cm - AT6+ - Guided missile So this changes from the single Hunters and Seekers in the WIP 4.3.1 to 2 shots each, and takes out the AT6+ from the Hunter, am I correct? ?Just want to make sure. IIRC the Hunter has AA 4+, or? Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo
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Breten	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 10:15 pm Posts: 177	4.3.1 Smart Missile System 30cm AP4+ Ignore Cover Hunter Missiles 75cm AT6+/AA6+ Guided Missiles Seeker Missiles 75cm AT6+ Guided Missiles current WIP 4.3.2 Smart Missile System 30cm AP4+ Ignore Cover 2x Hunter Missiles 75cm AT6+/AA6+ Guided Missiles
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Steele	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:49 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany	Quote (Breten @ 21 Dec. 2005 (21:03)) 4.3.1 Smart Missile System 30cm AP4+ Ignore Cover Hunter Missiles 75cm AT6+/AA6+ Guided Missiles Seeker Missiles 75cm AT6+ Guided Missiles current WIP 4.3.2 Smart Missile System 30cm AP4+ Ignore Cover 2x Hunter Missiles 75cm AT6+/AA6+ Guided Missiles Sorry, I thought you were talking about the SM Hunter. Not the Hunter Missiles. Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo
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baronpiero	Post subject: Skyray Posted: Thu Dec 22, 2005 9:13 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 1:38 pm Posts: 186	Cybershadow2. Change the Skyray to 75 points, keep the chasis the same but change the weapon fit to: Smart Missile System - 30cm - AP4+ 2x Hunter Missiles - 75cm - AA5+ 2x Seeker Missiles - 75cm - AT6+ - Guided missile +1 for the unguided version. TacticaThat's the ultimate point - why did we change it if its been working?

Outside from realism, which it seems we can bend one way or the other, I think it would make everything a lot easier.

The balance of air and anti-air units is a hot topic in every army-list (see Eldar). Removing the interaction between hunter missiles and markerlights means that you can consider two separate problems, which makes achieving balance a lot easier. And hopefully reaching a consensus as well.

I'm also convinced that the Markerlight could be given a more important role in the armylist, and I would not want to see AA restrict the scope of the possible game mechanics for the Markerlight too much. The more freedom for the markerlight, the better.