Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 5 of 6
  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

Aspect: List Structure and Options
Dobbsy
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:50 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Hammerhead Cadres

I understand the calls to relegate the HH to a Support formation. However, these were specifically added as a core cadre because it made the force extrememly fragile, and a little one-dimensional with most Tau armies being essentially infantry forces and no way to get around or make the force your own. I am aware of the danger of an all-skimmer Tau force (negating the problem of low close combat by being a skimmer) and would like this solved, but if there is a way to do this while keeping the HH as a core Cadre I would prefer this. In addition, the HH are about the only unit that is a reasonable financial cost.


CS- I don't think you can keep them core and balance them too. The support formation myself and I think Hena both propose, still let's the Tau take up to 6 Hammerheads as a single support formation. The only difference is that it's not core. This means it doesn't preclude you from taking a large HH formation (even 3!) to avoid fragility, just that you can't choose to make your entire army out of "all-skimming" HHs. Much more balanced IMO.

We have to be aware that people will not want to play Tau if they have to buy loads of expensive infantry, and that less players helps no-one
2 packs of FWs is far from "loads of expensive infantry". If they want they can stock up on Crisis suits which are far better price-wise. If people don't want to play a game because its expensive they're in the wrong hobby. It's apparent from the get-go that Tau are not your averagely priced army to buy.
Besides, there are plenty options for proxies out there. Heck, most people would most likely be proxying already.... It shouldn't be a major concern of yours to balance the list based on cost mate. Table top wargaming isn't based on this principle in anyy major way IMO. Sure it's nice but it shouldn't be a focus.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 2:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455
Quote: (Chroma @ 19 Dec. 2008, 14:02 )

Quote: (Lion in the Stars @ 19 Dec. 2008, 20:59 )

Aircraft are only onboard for their activation, so all adding MLs to Tigersharks (and AX10) does is give them the ability to engage with GMs without needing support on the ground.  It's not like a ML-equipped aircraft is sticking around and lighting everything within 30cm like the ML Sentry Turrets did.

Actually, aircraft aren't removed from the table until the End Phase, so, yes, planes could be used as "Sentry Turret"-like models, since they could be placed *anywhere* desired.

It's a common house rule to disengage with them immediately to prevent an enemy "flak rush" which many don't find plausible.

Ah, I'd been playing them like air in Flames of War (show up, get flakked, attack, and leave as a single activation).  Now your opposition makes sense.

=====

Shmitty, we're trying to do some serious housecleaning on the special rules right now.  I think the list is completely playable, but it's likely to undergo some significant changes yet.  The biggest issue is getting the army to not play like a long-range gunline (which isn't fun to play against), and fix the "point-and-click" issues with the Moray and Scorpfish.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Onyx
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:30 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
Quote: (Hena @ 22 Dec. 2008, 13:07 )

Quote: (Lion in the Stars @ 22 Dec. 2008, 03:57 )

Shmitty, we're trying to do some serious housecleaning on the special rules right now.  I think the list is completely playable, but it's likely to undergo some significant changes yet.  The biggest issue is getting the army to not play like a long-range gunline (which isn't fun to play against), and fix the "point-and-click" issues with the Moray and Scorpfish.

Scorpionfish isn't a point and click unit.

And neither is a shorter ranged Moray...




_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Irondeath
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 pm
Posts: 653
Quote: (Onyx @ 22 Dec. 2008, 08:30 )

Quote: (Hena @ 22 Dec. 2008, 13:07 )


Scorpionfish isn't a point and click unit.

And neither is a shorter ranged Moray...

Or a Moray following the tried-and-true rules for popped-up skimmers. :)

_________________
Visit www.epic-battles.de the ultimate german epic site&forum!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
CyberShadow
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 1:39 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
Swarm Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
Sure. I will put together an updated force list.

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Honda
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 7:02 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
2. No SC upgrade on scorpionfish


What is the issue with this? What imbalance does it introduce into the list?

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Honda
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 8:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
Two things. Current SC upgrade is way too cheap since you get a free Shield with it. Secondly it really allow all Vehicle force. Without this it would force at least some Crisis suits in the list. Basic idea is similar to IG where Mech Infantry is forced upon you if you wish to have SC.


1. If the cost is not appropriate, then it should be adjusted.

2. There should be nothing wrong with taking an all armor force if it doesn't cause a list imbalance. There is nothing in Tau fluff that I am aware of that states that you have to take infantry unless one is directly modeling the list from the 40K codex. If that is true, then it should be stated up front with the list vision.

Again, what play imbalance to the list is this causing?




_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chroma
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Honda @ 07 Jan. 2009, 19:54 )

Again, what play imbalance to the list is this causing?

Can I just ask the reverse question, Honda?

Why do you feel the Tau need more than one option for a Supreme Commander?  Is there any reference to Shas'O not leading from within a Crisis Suit anywhere?

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 9:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
An Ethereal in a Manta as Supreme Commander would make more sense than a non-Crisis suit Shas'O.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Honda
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 10:14 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas
Can I just ask the reverse question, Honda?

Why do you feel the Tau need more than one option for a Supreme Commander?  Is there any reference to Shas'O not leading from within a Crisis Suit anywhere?


Chroma,

Yes, it is fine to ask the question.  :cool:

Does it have to be there? Maybe not, it is a characterful differentiator in the list, but again it's not the magic bullet.

My point, though was this: We have been arguing incessantly on personal preferences vs. addressing issues and units that cause the list to be imbalanced. This particular formation has been in the list for quite awhile and at least in my exposure to opponents (which I freely admit is not the entire community), no one has ever said, "That unit, that one right there makes the list broke". So in an effort to identify what the big rocks are, I'm trying to find out, what is the beef with the unit? Does it imbalance the list?

That is what I am trying to find out. If as Hena has proposed, it is costed too cheaply, then let's focus on that issue, but not throw out the baby with the bath water.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Onyx
 Post subject: Aspect: List Structure and Options
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:28 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
Quote: (Chroma @ 08 Jan. 2009, 03:01 )

Quote: (Honda @ 07 Jan. 2009, 19:54 )

Again, what play imbalance to the list is this causing?

Can I just ask the reverse question, Honda?

Why do you feel the Tau need more than one option for a Supreme Commander?  Is there any reference to Shas'O not leading from within a Crisis Suit anywhere?

As BlackLegion stated, Manta's can control the battle field operations (ie Supreme Commander)- from the Tau 40K Codex.

We don't have a problem with Scorpionfish/SC upgrade at all but if there was a change, I'd like to see the Manta have a SC option.
It would almost always be the BTS unit so it would cause an interesting dilema.




_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 5 of 6
  [ 76 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net