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semajnollissor

Post subject: Firewarriors vs Pathfinders Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:46 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA

Quote (clausewitz @ 31 Mar. 2006 (10:10)) Also noone has even tried to contend the sniper on pulse carbine. Is there a reason in 40K that the pathfinders could not snipe with the carbines? ?(I do not know, as I do not play 40k, at least not since Rogue Trader.) In 40k, there is a universal weapon rule (sniper weapon) that allows the weapon to always hit on a 2+, wound on a 4+, and forces the target unit to take a pinning test (a leadership test that, if failed, prevents the unit from moving). Different races have different variations, like deathworld snipers getting to re-roll the to-wound roll if it fail the first roll, or Eldar Pathfinders (don't get confused by the name) getting to negate armour saves when the to-hit roll is 4+ (they still hit on a 2+). Now, I really don't remember if rail rifles get this rule (I assume they do), but carbines most certainly do not. Even if rail rifles don't have the rule in 40k, they serve the same role, so probably ought to have the sniper ability in E:A, if the rail rifles are included. Now, as for the disrupt ability, that could best be attributed to the carbine's grenade launcher. However, the rail rifle should not get the ability since it is functionally equivalent to other sniper rifles, and those rifles do not get disrupt. I think that inclusion of the rail rifles should be handled the same way that space marine scouts snipers were done. Let it be an upgrade to a single stand (as opposed to how all eldar rangers get sniper). My reasoning is that, like SM scouts taking sniper rifles, rail rifles are an ungrade and not standard equipment (like eldar ranger long-rifles are). You should know that in both cases (SM scouts and Tau Pathfinders) that 40k players very often take the sniper rifles, but that had no bearing on the SM list, so it should not have any here. Also, SM scouts can have a higher concentration of snipers per unit that tau pathfinders can (not including the new drones). Furthermore, including sniper teams in each unit doesn't make sense from a real world PoV. I mean, 1 of the 5 guys on a stand is a sniper, while the rest are normal scout - that doesn't seem like a good tactical arrangement. Its more likely that the snipers would be segregated, where that one sniper stand is really just 1 or 2 guys, and not 1 sniper + 4 scouts. I think that if you guys want to differentiate the rail rifle from other snipers, you could just play with the weapon stats. I would suggest making it 30cm AP5+/AT6+ sniper and remove the sniper ability from the unit notes. The simple inclusion of the ability to hit vehicles with a sniper shot would make rail rifles be in a class by themselves.

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clausewitz	Post subject: Firewarriors vs Pathfinders Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:47 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Giving disrupt to a weapon based on other things already modelled in EA is odd. Can you explan this more, I'm not quite following you here. Which goes against fluff I think as the rail rifle is still experimental or did that change with new codex? The sniper drone is IMO much better unit to model to be the sniper in Tau armies.

Perhaps once the new codex information makes it way to us we should redesign this.  Perhaps the drone snipers could be an upgrade to pathfinders and the rail rifle shots moved to them.
OR
We could assume that the pathfinder units we currently field actually include some of these sniper drones.  And that is where the increased number of rail rifles come from.  (It would be easy enough to model a longer barrel on drones attached to pathfinder units, and a cool model too!)
Well they don't have sniper ability, so they cannot "snipe" in the sense in 40k (anymore than marine scouts can). As I said the only one with that is Vindicare Assassin. I would like to know if the Ratling Snipers have it though, so anyone with IG codex please say. The weapon that they have however is "the sniper rifle" of Tau as it gives the pinning test and has a good stats otherwise. Which is something that marine scouts sniper ability explains (eg their arming with sniper rifles in 40k).
If Marine Scouts in 40k dont have sniper, while we know they can in EA, then that means that the abilities are not the same thing, they just have the same name.
Therefore, whether a unit has sniper ability in EA is not a function of the equivalent unit in 40k having the ability of the same name.  But instead is based on a different parameter.  IMO, this is based on the unit concept.  Thus Scouts "the snipers of the Marines, Rangers "the sniper of the Eldar", Ratlings "the sniper of the Guard" and Pathfinders "the snipers of the Tau", were given that ability to match the EA unit concept for each one.