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V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:19 am 
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Cw,

Yeah - the change is significant and would definitely be an ERC change. At least two of the members know my feelings on this point though.

dptdexys,

The flak formation would have to decide if he wanted to utilize the +1... if he did, he'd have to 'forgo' any movement actions this turn. The price for +1 to hit fliers. he could still activate to regroup, sustain, marshal to regroup + fire at -1, or go on overwatch later in the turn - just no movement.

cheers,

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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:22 pm 
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Hena,

I appreciate the response.

I don't see it as much more different than...

noting which formations are broken
noting which formations have already activated
noting blast markers on a formation
noting which ones trippled (so they cannot fire flak)

etc.

cheers,

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Steele
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:39 pm 
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Quote (Tactica @ 10 Mar. 2006 (16:22))
Hena,

I appreciate the response.

I don't see it as much more different than...

noting which formations are broken
noting which formations have already activated
noting blast markers on a formation
noting which ones trippled (so they cannot fire flak)

etc.

cheers,

I?ll second that. :D

Steele

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clausewitz
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:16 pm 
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Yeah, I tend to agree, my gut feeling is that this change wouldn't get through.

Not that I disagree with the theory.  Flak doesn't shoot well on the move so there would be a difference.

Would be a big boost for Ork flak, since a +1 to hit effectively doubles the number of hits a flakwagon puts out.  I wonder if thats just the tip of the iceberg... ???
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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:42 pm 
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@ Hena and Cw,

The ERC knows what problems there are with the aircraft rules. If they want to fix them, they can.

I've yet to see the ERC fix rules and make official changes to the main book.

How long have we known about the skimmer rules problem in the main book?

People adopt the experimental rules long before the ERC get around to making decisions on them IMHO. So if its not even being experimented with the next version of the rules will come out before flak is modified.

Cheers,

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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:43 pm 
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So CS,

AX-1-0 - made a decision?

I think the player input is pretty much null at this point and views have been expressed.

Cheers,

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 8:14 am 
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Indeed, you could probably just refer back to the first round of discussions!

p.s....... you are feeling sleepy, you want to have a formation of 2 planes, with 2dc and 6+ armour.... with a single TK D3 gun...... and AA on the burst cannons.......

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 11:44 am 
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Currently, I must admit that I have not heard anything that strongly convinces me that the initial proposal was way off. Therefore, mainly going with this for the short-term is probably best. My only contention is whether I have got it wrong to give 2xMW4+(TK1) rather than MW3+(D3xTK)...

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 3:10 pm 
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That would be for target type - the former means its better at taking out RA targets (3 hits over three turns say), the latter at multiple dc targets (4DC over 3 turns).

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Tactica
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:25 am 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 11 Mar. 2006 (04:44))
Currently, I must admit that I have not heard anything that strongly convinces me that the initial proposal was way off. Therefore, mainly going with this for the short-term is probably best. My only contention is whether I have got it wrong to give 2xMW4+(TK1) rather than MW3+(D3xTK)...

CS,

Just make it single shot. Your clearly on the fence and the pressure is high enough now that its not going to get better. However, it better be a high probability shot as it is in the original vehicle. If not - its going to be an useless investment.

If they are twin-linked and going to be a single shot then MW2+ TK(D3) is in order. It also reflects their accuracy.

Many targets will be in cover anyway. that would put it at 3+ The shot will atleast be something that's fairly reliable and will factor its advanced targetting systems.

225 points is going to be a stretch for this plane with a single shot.

If you go with MW3+ TK(D3) as the base stat, and single shot, it means you may have a single shot vs targets in cover at 4+ in the common game...

225 points for a single 50/50 shot at units in cover IS NOT WORTH IT and that will effectively kill the plane.

However, in the end - we just need a decision and something to try in v4.4... so, I leave it in your capable hands.

Cheers,

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 7:37 am 
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I very rarely see super heavies in cover. Reason why? When advancing with a speed of 15cm its hard to cover hop and still advance.

2+ shots mean over the course of a 4 turn game you will be able to fly 3 times easily if you are range 45cm. Thats 5DC of damage. Two planes teamed with some regular AT fire would be a serious threat to any Titan not to mention SHT.

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 10:49 am 
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OK, in the interests of 'getting on with it', I will set the current stats at:

Points: 225
Force List: Available individually (max formation size of one), any number of formations within 1/3 of total force limit permitted.

Type: War engine, bomber
Speed: Bomber
Armour: 5+
Close Combat: n/a
Firefight: n/a

Twin Light Railcannon - 45cm - MW3+ - Titan Killer (D3), FxF
Twin-Linked Ground Burst Cannons - 15cm - AP4+
Heavy Ground Interceptor Missiles - 30cm - AT5+ - FxF
Aircraft Seeker Missiles - 45cm - AT6+ - Guided missiles

FxF - Fixed forward fire arc
Notes: DC2, Critical effect as version 4.3.3


Notes

- The AA ability of the weaponry is gone, as it simply cant be used.
- While I understand the issue of those looking for a MW2+ main gun, I have left it at 3+ for now. 2+ is the closest to a 'given' in the game, and I think that 2+ weapons should be an exception rather than a rule and that there should be a very good reason to justify anything 2+. It may be that there is this good reason, but I think that we should go with 3+ for now at least.

Future Issues

- Formation size
- Points cost

OK, many thanks for the enlightening discussion. I am sure that we have not seen the end of it just yet!  :D

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: V4.4 - AX-1-0 Resolution (I hope!)
PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:50 pm 
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OK. I have had a PM regarding the AA capability of this unit. I was working under the assumption that the AA fire was wasted on this unit. However, it has been pointed out the AA fire can be used defensively against air attacks (even if the target is an aircraft). Since the AA attacks were originally removed because I thought that they could not be used, and since this is incorrect, I have added them back in. Therefore, the revised stats are:


Points: 225
Force List: Available individually (max formation size of one), any number of formations within 1/3 of total force limit permitted.

Type: War engine, bomber
Speed: Bomber
Armour: 5+
Close Combat: n/a
Firefight: n/a

Twin Light Railcannon - 45cm - MW3+ - Titan Killer (D3), FxF
Twin-Linked Burst Cannons - 15cm - AP4+/AA6+
Heavy Interceptor Missiles - 30cm - AT5+/AA5+ - FxF
Aircraft Seeker Missiles - 45cm - AT6+ - Guided missiles

FxF - Fixed forward fire arc
Notes: DC2, Critical effect as version 4.3.3


Notes - Future Issues:
- Formation size
- Points cost

I assume that this will not upset anyone or cause many comments. If you would like this discussed, please drop me a PM and I will re-open this thread.

Thanks.

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