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40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors

 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:34 am 
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Quote (Steele @ 03 Mar. 2006 (12:33))


Some people requested stats for Vespids as in the new Codex:

Vespid ( Mal`Kor)

Trooper : 16 Points
WS:3 BS:3 S:3 W:4 LP:1 I:5 A:1 Ld:6 Save:5+

So they have IG armor and shooting abilities... Each model will hit 50% of the time needing a 4+.

Oddly - what's that 4 wounds per model nonsense? That has to be a typo!

Also - what the heck is LP:1?


Swarmleader/Queen : 22 Points , same Profile except Ld which is 9

A Unit comprises 3 - 10 Vespids and 1 Leader

Ahh, Ld 9 (Like a space marine!) for the leader of this unit - that's interesting!



Type : Jumptroop?

Jumptroop (Jump Infantry in US terminology) means the type of infantry. 40K seperates every unit in the game into specific unit types. So instead of just having infantry, you have Infantry, Cavalry/Steed, Jump Infantry, Monstrous Creatures... etc... This is similiar to the way E:A seperates vehicles into LV, AV, SHT, and Titan.

More than anything - it means the move and assault like Jet Pack equipped assault marines. Nothing more, nothing less.


Neutronprojector :
- Range:12 Inch
- S:5
- Armor Penetration(AP): 3
- Type Assault: 1

Strength 5 is pretty good - typical Tau Strength, but 1 better than Marines and 2 better than IG. It means it wounds IG, Eldar, Dark Eldar, and Tyranids very easily (on a 2+). It also means it wounds things with Toughness 4 (Marines, Terminators, Chaos, Necrons, etc) the majority of the time (on a 3+).

In 40K, after you hit somebody you have to wound them. Once they are wounded, then they *may* get a save attempt.

AP3 means that you have to have BETTER than 3+ armor save on your model - in order to get a save against this weapon!! That means you need to be a Terminator to get a save! That's huge!

Assault 1 means its a weapon that is fired on the move and you get 1 shot a turn with it.

Looks like these guys are going to be quite useful if you can get them close.

rules :
Accelerated Flight? : They have the Special Rule Sprint? as in the Core Rules Section of Special Rules.

Something this means "Fleet" in the English version of the rules... means you can go 'extra' fast in movement if you do not shoot that turn... similar to Eldar, many tyranids, and kroot in 40K.

Born to Fly : They may reroll failed dangerous Terain Tests.
Very handy - so they navigate terrain better than the average jump packer... don't know what that will equate to in E:A as all infantry jump packers are immune to terrain.

And as long as the leader is still alive they benefit from Markerlit targets.
LOL - OK, that's cool. That means those nasty guns can hit on 2+ isntead of 4+... Heh... very cool.

Markerlights means quite a bit more in E:A - well, you know that better than any of us... you have the new book. :p

These guys definitely don't appear to be the hand to hand combat boon many 40K fans were hoping for. Doesn't appear that they fight combat at all... they just get in your face and blast the heck out of you... maybe that's an E:A FF weapon or a 15cm gun in the end.

But if Kroot don't have a shot in E:A from their 24" range shot in 40K... then I can't imagine the Vespids will get an E:A shot since they only fire 12" in 40K.



Cheers for posting the stats, sounds like a unit that will be handy in 40K anyway. :)

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:35 am 
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Quote (Steele @ 03 Mar. 2006 (13:15))
As a sidenote : did you see the new Broadside Model made by Forgeworld? They will have shoulder mounted Plasmaweapons and at each arm 1 Railgun.

Cheers!
Steele



I love that... looks great... and the guns don't stick up in the air all funny like anymore.

Now they will definitely be the same size as crisis...

:p

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 1:42 am 
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Tac> I think W in the german statline converts to Toughness, and LP converts to Wounds.

And if the weapon is 12" range, it'd better be just a FF weapon - after all, the 24" range multimelta on a Land Speeder is only 15cm range, and 24" range lasguns are just FF weapons too. FF with ability, maybe, but not a ranged shot.

Let me mull it over for a stat line, and I'll get back to you tomorrow ;)

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:29 am 
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Yeah they're not the HTH hing some were hoping for, but they are Space Marine killers, so they are what I need.


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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:36 am 
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Quote (dysartes @ 03 Mar. 2006 (18:42))
Tac> I think W in the german statline converts to Toughness, and LP converts to Wounds.

And if the weapon is 12" range, it'd better be just a FF weapon - after all, the 24" range multimelta on a Land Speeder is only 15cm range, and 24" range lasguns are just FF weapons too. FF with ability, maybe, but not a ranged shot.

Let me mull it over for a stat line, and I'll get back to you tomorrow ;)

D,

Thank you for the german insite.

PS - Look forward to it.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:40 pm 
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OK, Tactica, here goes - I'm not making any suggestions about a Swarmleader, formation size or cost at this point, and I'll explain a bit about decisions and parts of the stats I'm unsure about at the end.

Name: Vespid Stingwings
Type: Infantry
Speed: 15cm
Armour: 6+
CC: 6+
FF: 4+

Weapon - Range - Firepower - Notes
Neutron Projector - (15cm) - Small Arms - (Extra Attack (+1)?)

Notes
Jump Pack, (Scout?)

------------------------------------------------------------

Possible bones of contention

Armour - they've got the same Toughness as an Ork, and the armour of a Guardsman, so I think 6+ is fair, at this point.

CC/FF - As poor as IG infantry in CC (hence the 6+), but putting out a good deal of high-power, high-speed (ie, good initiative) firepower, which leads me to currently think a 4+ is about right. I'm not wholly convinced, and wouldn't be surprised should testing point at them needing to go to 5+.

Neutron Projector - Firstly, this'd need the name changing once we have the English version (assuming the English isn't Neutron Projector  :p ). Secondly, this weapon is too short-ranged to allow for a ranged attack, so it hasn't gotten one.

Possible Stats

The items which are in brackets & italicised are ones I'm not sure about, but which could get added. Scout is there due to their similarirty in role & operation to Eldar Swooping Hawks, but I'd need to read more about the Vespids to see if it was justified.

The Extra Attacks (+1) is one that could happen, and again, it came about by me checking various other statlines - this arises from looking at Dire Avengers, which also make use of a 12" rage, assault 1 weapon in the Shuriken Catapult, but get 2 attacks in an E:A firefight. Again, its one to look at during testing.

------------------------------------------------------------

What d'you think, then, TActica (& others)?

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:28 pm 
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Looks about right to me.

I did a version here:
http://www.epic40k.co.uk/epicomm....;t=6143

But, mine had CC5+(though I don't think it'd be a terrible loss if it went down to 6+)

They don't seem to be too 'uber' or anything in 40k, useful and good for supporting crisis suits, but they don't look set to take out things unsupported. I'd probably go with no extra attack, just keep them nice and simple. The scouting one is interesting, but I've no idea on that front.

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:32 pm 
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What about giving them the orca :D


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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:41 pm 
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I think that'd be a bit rude, don't you? :D

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:42 pm 
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Again ... hoping F/W does everything new that comes out for T&K in Epic scale ...  :D

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 3:44 pm 
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I'd agree with that hope, L4 - but I would like them to look at possibly doing Epic Necrons first.

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:17 pm 
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Works for me ! :D  It does amaze me that the T&K followed by the Necrons get a lot dicussion here.  And we all want them all in Epic scale !  G/W-S/G-F/W should hear this !   They are really the most futuristic armies in the game, IMO ! :D  I like'm !   I'll probably use DRMs Androids as Epic Necrons ... because I believe that we'll never see much else out in Epic scale.  Look at the "goat rope" we're going thru with F/Orks ! ???  It's taking forever to get those released !  Hopefully we'll see those in Apr-May in the US ...  ???

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:44 pm 
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D,

Thanks for the suggestion, thought, and Idea to get the process going here...

I'll put my changes ijn Orange.

Name: Vespid Stingwings
Type: Infantry
Speed: 30cm
Armour: 6+
CC: 6+
FF: 5+

Weapon - Range - Firepower - Notes
Neutron Projector - (15cm) - Small Arms - --

Notes: Jump Pack

========
The doubling of the jump pack speed is because they are jump infantry, just like jump packs of the marines, orks, and Eldar swooping hawks. These are just natural wings vs. mechanical. They are natural fliers or whatever was said and they also have the fleet of wing rule like tyranids and Eldar. Yielding to to the Eldar lead and letting them have the 35cm jump pack dire avengers, these are at least as fast and mobile as the ork storm boyz and marine scouts - neither of which get the fleet rule in 40K - so these are clearly meant to be faster than both of them so making them at least as fast seems warranted in epic.

FF 4+... I just can't justify it in my mind so I put it at 5+. First, I think think there's a standing principle across the Tau list to make all FF artificially deflated by 1 point and I think other lists would probably have such a gun at 4+ in their lists. Also, the FW and Pathfinders all have Strength 5 guns and their FF is 5+. The AP is better here and one could argue that it needs to go to 4+, but I think its so close that I'd rather err to the side of caution. It's not 'obviously' a 4+ FF to me - so, changed it to a 5+.

Scout doesn't seem justified here from what I read so far on them. I've not heard about their recon role or their ability to advance forward and stir up stuff. I think they are just a fast moving support troop for the Tau.

So, I don't know if I like it... I'm pretty sure I don't... but I think this is more along the lines of what they should be in E:A.

Regards to their queen... well, that's just a sergent for each one of their squads in 40K. The squad has a better LD when she's around and they can all use ML to better their weapon to hit bonus'... all fine and dandy in 40K, but none of it really applies here in E:A. In E:A - every unit would have a sergent/queen factored into their stands and I just don't see her having that big of an impact on the unit considering how E:A uses markerlights only for guiding in seekers.

So what good is a fast moving infantry unit that doesn't really fight well in combat and can't shoot for the tau?






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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:59 pm 
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Good point on the speed, Tactica - I'd missed that factor with jump infantry entirely.

As to the other points, I think I said I was unsure re EA(+1) & Scout, and was just about leaning to FF 4+.

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 Post subject: 40K Tau Empire Codex Rumors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 9:39 pm 
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Since they dont have a ranged attack which can be boosted, as the Tau infantry gets, they could instead benefit from the "normal" FF4+ instead of the "reduced" Tau FF values.  That would at least give them a function in the list.  Otherwise, as Tactica says, what use would they have?


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