pfft what do you need them for

Well the present list has the Pathfinder formation at 175pts and the Pathfinder upgrade at 125pts.
Maybe it's not as simple as it seems.

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Haha, fair point,

I thought it was 175 and 100. totally forgot that it was 125 for the upgrade!

The upgrade will stay at 125pts.

Id still drop the carbines and possibly go at AP6+ on the rail rifle to keep the points down.

Pathfinders shouldn't be more shooty than fire warriors, I thought that was our starting point?

For me it wasn't about making them less shooty, just finding them an appropriately shooty niche. It's not as if they don't have guns and aren't in a shooty army...

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Even without the carbines they have AP4+ sniper (as they'll always be in ML range). Isn't that shooty enough?

*shrug*

I like shooty. :-)

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I'm with Jstr19. No points increase please and drop the carbines attack - heck just have them as a small arms or whatever....


And 25 points is a huge jump in this list it's too damned points-sensitive - something that really bugs me.
Seriously, who takes 15 activation armies? Do you really see it that often? Don't spoil everyone else's fun because of a few in the minority.

Again, army concept aside, these guys shouldn't be getting any shooting at all, except for possible rail-rifle upgrades (they are by no means standard issue - until recently they were experimental and had a tendency to overload and kill the user). Pathfinders are a unit that:
-have a doctrine of not engaging (keep markerlighting things you jackasses)
-have a vested interest in not engaging (hey pathfinder guys, we'll be right behind you in case things go wrong. promise)
-have a lack of ability to engage in proper combat (Nah, you guys won't need the ammo charger)
-have a small squad size that can't sustain proper combat
-have lighter armor than the line troops

They are scouts. They move forward and find ambushes, enemy concentrations, and I'd imagine they would do things like mine-clearance ahead of the main army (with Fio caste assistance). If they find appropriate targets they will call in Seeker missile strikes. They have rail rifles for similar opportunist operations. They should avoid direct combat at all costs, but hanging back and calling in missile strikes, or taking out targets of opportunity with rifles... it's a niche of the Tau army. They have that traditional skirmisher feel, loose formation irregular troops acting as a buffer between the main Tau force and the main enemy force.

So I'll reiterate my point, don't give them shots with pulse carbines. It doesn't make sense. They aren't guys who close to knife-fighting range. The carbine is for self defense at most, and even at that only used when shit really hits the fan. After all, it's much better for them to just fall back since they engage at longer ranges than most infantry. So unless they stumble upon/are stumbled upon at point blank range, they'll either pin the enemy down with sniper fire or withdraw. They could fire off flares that explode into cartoon "WE'RE RIGHT HERE" signs with air raid sirens going off, and it would be just as obvious as firing off pulse carbines.

Not good for scouting.

Hoe about keeping the 4+ save removing the Pulse Carbine shot and giving them Rail Rifles as an upgrade?

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In Epic, this:



Basically does most of this for you:



Pulse Carbines have a range of 15cm. It's going to be pretty rare that you're going to use them, because you're exposing yourself to a potential Engagement where you'll be inside Close Combat range.

I see your point, but most of the time I suspect they're going to be staying near maximum range and using their Rail Rifles & Markerlights, exactly as you describe.

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If the fromation is getting Sniper I would like for initial testing at least to keep the cost high as I want it to be a difficult choice, if the carbines are dropped it just means cheaper access to alot of mechanised sniper fire.

Arguments that the Pathfinders would never fire are scouts and just mark things always, is just a single possible interpretation. I think in this very thread an occasson when Pathfinders engage in tunnel fighting is mentioned, Another way of looking at Pathfinders is as similar to the idea of modern special forces operating ahead of the main body of troops marking targets out for missiles, but not completely opposed to any fighting or ambushing or demolition work or whatever (Although admittedly Stealth are better at this, but Pathfinders were probably the initial model for their work) - I should imagine within the frame work of the Tau army they have a good degree of flexibility.

Another consideration is that a round of shooting in epic is a long time, not a quick burst like 40K, the Pathfinders have plenty of time to mark targets watch the outcome and then maybe lend support by hitting with an ambush of their own to increase the confusion amongst the enemy.

These stats are the ones that will be in 6.32, arguments that the formation wont be taken dont really hold up as you would be foolish to not take at least one fromation of mechanised snipers - the formation is pretty good in its own right but just the chance you might get a lucky assassination off on the SC makes at least one worthwhile.

Personally with these stats I see them as very useful in terms of giving Tau something to deal with Marines - as that -1 (-2 on crossfire) can be massively beneficial.

And for more general work to pick off enemy characters with the Leader ability which stacks very nicely with the disrupt weapons Tau use, so to me there is good synergy.

Its just the formation is priced so you have to think about its inclusion.

Well, high activation armies are pretty common amongst tourney players, something the list is for. Various Orks, Eldar and marine builds are high activation.




I have used them a fair bit - but I like to use them as upgrades to firewarriors int he last few games, which are obviously keen to close to 15cm.

I like the save drop to 6+, makes them harder to use as otherwise just waltz along next to the transports like marines unless that bit of board has some ruins nearby.

I've seen practical-looking 15 activation army lists. Whilst Tau are naturally a high activation army, 15+ is getting excessive.
They haven't seen a great deal of play recently, as lately we've been concentrating on checking the Manta's balance.

Dobbsy: Have you played any 6.x games lately?


This is an excellent point. See, I knew I wanted Pathfinders to change for a reason.

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