Well, my point here was that the two units that I've removed entirely detracted from the Tau theme of the list, being as they were anti-personnel artillery (which the Tau aren't supposed to have as they clearly have a 'thing' for precision), and and also promoted a 'gunline' style instead of a 'fluid' style based on movement.

I could call them 'non-canon', or 'made up units that don't suit the Tau way of war at all, which by being included in the core list actually harm the list's theme'... I guess it'll have to be the latter.

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Also Crisis Suits are denied access to cheap protection in the form of Gun Drones (Crisis Suits with Gun Drones are awesome. Crisis Suits alone are not as outright superior to Fire Warriors).

How about you call them "the AP artillery units", as many people do not have an issue with canoninity.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Zombocom's suggestion wins, "AP artillery units" they shall now be known as.


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For the record, my problem with the units is not that they are non-canon (heh I promise I'll stop soon!), but that they don't fit the Tau background.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Let's not get into a discussion about what everyone thinks is "canon", because that is a subjective assignment. For some of the units under discussion, there is just as much evidence for as against. Some decided to add, some didn't. It not pertinent to this discussion.

As far as whether or not AP missiles should be in the list is a valid discussion point. That is one of the core issues that is being investigated. What E&C has laid out in his proposal is more than what I was asking for, but I don't see that as a wasted effort.

I think I should also be very clear that we are not adopting "his" list. This effort is to test a branch in the road and see where it will lead. Components of the list that fit within the existing vision that improve the list (subjective, I know) will be taken under consideration.

As an early exercise we (including me) should post a list that we'd play with and discuss. I did that with the Elysians and it helped me understand how other players intended to make the list work.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

As an early exercise we (including me) should post a list that we'd play with and discuss.

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Markerlights are not restricted to Skyrays

Well I'd like to see a few more ideas first. Henas ideas are in the other thread and are quite simple. Mine could also be unleased but I'm not sure if they fit what people are asking for as they don't have a new roll for ML's (and are essentially a list structure similar to E&C's with changes in unit stats a bit like Henas idea, notably the short range weapons systems (also balances ions and rails, but thats another issue ) which all get noticably better - the last version of it was posted up here way back when).

However I'm not sure (without trying) if E&C's idea work straight off as the biggest change I can see is the increase +25 Skyray cost to balance out the firepower buff. I'm not sure thats enough considering I can now have even better AT fire and could go back to the old tactic of throwing forward formations with ML as part of combined activations - but now instead of just piranha artillery I can use quite meaty weapons. Its certainly a bold change, affecting as it does every unit. I guess I worry it makes the list once costed accurately dependant on ML's and I never wanted to be so reliant on them

Maybe once the various ideas are in people can have a look and see what sort of direction things should go - minor FW tweaks and list changes (perhaps including dropping AP Gm's), stat changes for several units and list reorg, ML special rule change and list reorg to go with it.

And how do you make your nice looking list drawn up?

And minor list points - anti air formation is a bad idea in a list with excellent flak attachments and great interceptors.
Other formations I'd like to see in such a list would be a 6 strong drone formation for 150 points (suitable to be carried by a wing of tigersharks) and perhaps a Supreme Commander formation of SC, crisis, 2 drones, 500 (to represent shield drones and similar attachments). And could the drone upgrade be 2 or 4 drone stands to account for peoples collections?

Edit - I see you've though up the 50 point drone thing!

Edit - And is 1 core 3 support possible to mollify Rug before you play him Ben?

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I don't expect the idea to be balanced initially.

...the biggest change I can see is the increase +25 Skyray cost to balance out the firepower buff.

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Could you post up a Fusion gun HH variant and pricing for the list please E&C? This one possible addition would make me very happy with this list - I've been dying for that variant to be used. I'd even go as far as saying I'll use this as the main Tau list for myself if that can be added.  


One thing on the skyray however, I'm not convinced it's actually worth 100 points. That's a SM landraider in cost.... The ML is only 30cm ranged it's really not the catalyst of destruction that the 25 point increase proposes.

Think of it this way
Before
375 points
6 x Seekers AT5+
8 x 30cm Ap4+
1 x 30cm AP5+ IC
8 x 15cm AP5+ disrupt
4 x 15cm AP4+
2 AT hits, 9 AP hits

After
400 points
6 x Seekers AT4+
8 x 30cm Ap3+
1 x 30cm AP4+ IC
8 x 15cm AP4+ disrupt
4 x 15cm AP3+
3 AT hits, 12 1/2 AP hits

Not worth the extra 25?

By comparison firepower only (so discounting the skimmer CC shield, the armour 5+, the AA, shorter range, other firing abilities) Guard 'mech are
7 30cm AP5+
7 30cm AP5+/AT6+
7 45cm AP5+/AT6+
7 AP hits or 2 1/3AP and 2 1/3AT

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

The collector's stats seem fine to me. I'll include them anyway in the next refinement of the concept.

One thing on the skyray however, I'm not convinced it's actually worth 100 points. That's a SM landraider in cost.... The ML is only 30cm ranged it's really not the catalyst of destruction that the 25 point increase proposes.

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A thought, which would be better:

1 - +1 to hit for all fire affected by Markerlights.

2 - Ignore Cover granted for all fire affected by Markerlights.



Either (or even both!!) can be justifed from the background / Warhammer 40,000, so it's just up to us to pick the most suitable solution to bring true synergy to the army list.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I think option one will definitely make Tau a much more shooting oriented force and be the most obvious means to telegraph how tau are expected to play while option two will be much more subtle means of boosting tau shooting because it eliminates one of the possible means of modifying the to hit roll. Ultimately I don't see option two as effective since it doesn't encourage tau movement as much as option one.

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-Vaaish