Hammerhead Cadre

I noticed that many of you left this out of the Cadre choices. The Hammerhead Cadre was added to give the force more hard hitting basic formations. I realise that this means that an all-tank Tau force is then possible, and since it was added for a reason I am curious why people now think that it should be a core Cadre option.

Since MLs on aircraft really only add one more 30cm, 5+ shot, is it that big a deal?

Vespids

These are a thorny prospect. On one hand I like the idea of them. On the other, they counter the design philosophy of defined strengths and weaknesses of a list and there are no models. I would reluctantly move these to section 6, unless we can make them work in a way that works with the list without covering the clear design weaknesses (ie a ff unit that doesnt just cover a gap in the force). In the meantime, these should be moved to section 6 (bye, guys!).

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

If you don't mind a new voice in the discussion I would like to chip in too.  I used to play quite a bit of Epic and contributed to the original Tau lists back in the day.  (In fact I was pleased to see my name had stayed on there after so many years.)  Anyway, my Epic playin friends had moved off and I hadn't played in some time until I found a new play group, which got my interest in the game back up leading me here.

First, I have to say that the list has progressed quite a bit and is much improved over what it was when I last played regularly.

As far as the topic of this tread goes:

I favor units of 6 FWs for the ease of purchase.  It makes the army much more approachable for new players.

I think combining Tetras and Pirana into one unit is a great idea.  They do serve different roles, but it wouldn't be too different then SM Bikes and Attack Bikes or the different kinds of Landspeeders.

I am not sure of the origins of the SC upgrade for the Scorpionfish, but it doesn't seem right to me.  If the best of the best for the Fire Caste become Crisis pilots, isn't that where their SC would be?

I like the idea of moving ML Turrets and Vespid to Section 6.

Has there been any discussion of adding Remoras or the new Tigershark variant to Section 6 at least?

I like having the option to have HHs as either a Cadre or support choice.

The only aircrafts with ML wouls be the Tigershark and the Manta, right?

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Human Auxiliaries

The problem with increasing the size is that the formation then becomes a good, cheap activation with large numbers. This is something that Tau should be careful of adding, and takes emphasis away from the Fire Warriors. Human Aux need to be worse that FWs, and therefore cheaper. They cant be a meat shield, and should not compensate for the Tau drawbacks (which is exactly what they do in the background). I am open to suggestions with these guys. I am intrigued by the prospect of disallowing the Human Aux any transport options at all in the game... This may be a way of making it work. Further comments?

Upgrades Adding Core Units

Disallowing formations from adding core units could be something 'Tau'. Most forces allow you to bulk out the core formations with more of the same. Currently, the only one that I have specificially not allowed are the Stealth formations. I am not sure what the reasoning behind not wanting these bulk formations in the case of Broadsides, Hammerheads, Stingray and Pathfinders. Can you (Hena) expand on this?

Force Structure

Well, the Tetra/Piranha formation allows mix and match, and so pack size becomes less of an issue in this specific case.

Six stands of Fire Warriors still requires 30 FW, which is five too many. Sure, you can mix in Drones to that but it doesnt solve the problem. You could just say that two packs of FW gives you a formation with some FW left over. I do take the point, and I am happy to discuss this, but it is a reasonably large structural change. That said, it is certainly an idea worth considering and I will think about this further.

Piranha/Tetra

This is just an idea to throw around right now. We could give them both a 4+ save, which wouldnt break the background. However, it looks like general opinion is to keep these seperate.

Hammerhead Cadres

I understand the calls to relegate the HH to a Support formation. However, these were specifically added as a core cadre because it made the force extrememly fragile, and a little one-dimensional with most Tau armies being essentially infantry forces and no way to get around or make the force your own. I am aware of the danger of an all-skimmer Tau force (negating the problem of low close combat by being a skimmer) and would like this solved, but if there is a way to do this while keeping the HH as a core Cadre I would prefer this. In addition, the HH are about the only unit that is a reasonable financial cost. We have to be aware that people will not want to play Tau if they have to buy loads of expensive infantry, and that less players helps no-one.

Gun Drones

Thanks for the clarifications. I do now understand the issue. My only problem is that the core background and codex has standard Gun Drones as the 'default' type, and my making Heavy Drones the formation and Gun Drones the upgrade we force people to make new minis for a formation (I know, we already do this elsewhere) and go counter to the established 'standard'.

Thanks.

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Human Auxilia suggestion: Just drop them.  They've been a pain in the rear to balance in the current list and they can be brought in under house rules, scenarios, or variant lists down the road.

I understand the calls to relegate the HH to a Support formation. However, these were specifically added as a core cadre because it made the force extrememly fragile, and a little one-dimensional with most Tau armies being essentially infantry forces and no way to get around or make the force your own.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'm confused.  

Aircraft are only onboard for their activation, so all adding MLs to Tigersharks (and AX10) does is give them the ability to engage with GMs without needing support on the ground.  It's not like a ML-equipped aircraft is sticking around and lighting everything within 30cm like the ML Sentry Turrets did.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Actually, aircraft aren't removed from the table until the End Phase, so, yes, planes could be used as "Sentry Turret"-like models, since they could be placed *anywhere* desired.

It's a common house rule to disengage with them immediately to prevent an enemy "flak rush" which many don't find plausible.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Out of curiosity what is the state of the Tau list?  Is it in a final tweaking phase or still pretty open to change?