Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Firewarriors
VanDamneg
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 11:52 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:43 pm
Posts: 24
To me a change to 2XAP5+ no disrupt seems like a good idea.  This emphasises (spelling?) the large number of powerful weapons in one stand over guard or space marines one heavy weapon.

Upping their firefight to 4+ is another possibility.  This would make them pretty powerful though as combined with their armour they would be very good in firefights (which maybe they should be).

On a slightly different point, shouldn't the sniper ability on pathfinders be only for their rail rifles?  It seems unfair to put it on their pulse carbines as well.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
clausewitz
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
VanDamneg, pretty much all the Tau units have artificially low FF values.  This is to discourage the Tau from initiating assaults.  Part of the character of the army.

Fire Warriors already have 2x AP5+ shots.  One at 30cm and one at 15cm with disrupt.  Not sure what you are suggesting regards that.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:12 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
Multilasers have AP5+/AT6+
Assault Cannons (Strength 6 too) have AP5+/AT5+

It seems that at strentgh 6 weapons gain an AT-value in E:A.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 12:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
I think he means two normal shots at 30cm.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
clausewitz
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
I think he means two normal shots at 30cm.

It's possible he meant that.  

If so it's not a change that I think would be good.  Firstly, removing disrupt from the FW takes away a useful ability.  Secondly, it removes some of the character of the FW, the 15cm shot is really there as the Tau alternative to assaulting.  And the disrupt ability on the shot increases the chances of breaking the enemy, which, IMO, is appropriate for the Tau's assault alternative.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Xisor
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:32 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515
I agree on FW not gaining an AT value. The simple reason is that generally speaking 'most' of what they can go up against typically counts as a LV in Epic anyway, otherwise their firepower is unlikely to account for more than that BM anyway[the odds of making a solid hit and taking out of action against, say, a Rhino, are simply not that good].

AP5+ seems most accurate.

Xisor

_________________
"Number 6 calls to you
The Cylon Detector beckons
Your girlfriend is a toaster"
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tactica
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 4:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
@Black Legion, TRC, and Cw

I think Black Legion was thinking the Pathfinders carry rail rifles... However, they don't, they carry pulse carbines and pulse rifles - both of which are Strength 5 in 40K.

Heavy bolters are the closest comp as they all have S5 and are AP5 in E:A.

However, Pathfinders to carry rail-rifles and are Strength 6. Very good point actually *Black Legion*. Thank you for the eye openning. Somebody else asked why rail rifles have disrupt - also a good point. So their is precident and justification on the rail rifle front for AP5/AT6. And if they got this, 2 disrupt shots would not be warranted on the Pathfinder unit - in fact, I don't know why Pathfinders have 2 disrupt shots anyway - they shouldn't (different topic hmm...) Again - thank you BlackLegion. Good points.

Regarding FW and staying on topic here though... Disrupt on the Firewarriors.

The pulse carbines (at 15cm and Strength 5 in 40K) are what's delivering the disrupt. As it causes pinning tests in 40K and flings gernades erverywhere as it fires - this is justified and makes sense. The pulse rifles are delivering longer range (30cm) AP5+ shot (also strength 5 in 40K) and no disrupt associated with that one.

In the end, the value from the FW comes from cadre (core choice) thus allowing you contingents, and has 3 upgrade slots to burn that are flexible.

I think they are working as designed. They are a bit lack luster from their 40K glory, but I guess its meant to be.

Once the rest of the list is designed, maybe the FW points can be looked at again for a possible reduction or something.

Cheers,




_________________
Rob
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 7:51 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
It was only to show, that pulse rifles with their strength 5 don't warrant an AT6+ shot.
Rail rifles with their strength 6 are another matter...

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
dysartes
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 8:59 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:16 pm
Posts: 908
The pulse carbines (at 15cm and Strength 5 in 40K) are what's delivering the disrupt. As it causes pinning tests in 40K and flings gernades erverywhere as it fires - this is justified and makes sense.


A pulse carbine causing disrupt is, to my mind, justified.

My problem with the pulse carbine profile is an 18" range gun in 40k gaining a ranged attack (beyond FF) in Epic - the shortest range weapon I know to gain a range attack would be the Multi-Melta, which is a 24cm range weapon.

_________________
The forgotten Champion - AMTL, baby!

Dysartes.com - Resources for the Modern Wargamer - Last updated: December 2004 - Next Update: In Progress

Sentinels are just young titans that haven't grown up yet!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
BlackLegion
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 05, 2005 12:13 am
Posts: 8711
Location: Leipzig, Germany, Europe, Sol III, Orion Arm, Milky Way, Local Group, Virgo Supercluster, Universe
So they doesn't justify a ranged attack, but the Disrupt ability for their FF-attack?

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
clausewitz
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
My problem with the pulse carbine profile is an 18" range gun in 40k gaining a ranged attack (beyond FF) in Epic - the shortest range weapon I know to gain a range attack would be the Multi-Melta, which is a 24cm range weapon.

This is part of the design concept of the Tau.  Instead of getting good FF values, which would encourage assault, they get boosted ranged attacks.
Thus the Pulse Carbine was made into a (very short) ranged weapon.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Tactica
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241
Cw,

Agreed. There are some ranges boosted in Tau to avoid raised FF's.

FF's have been artificially deflated to avoid past problems encountered.

In reality (heh...) tau would convert to E:A to have unbelievable FF values if you really look at the weapons. It just doesn't make sense in the end.

FF is only used in engage actions. The guiding vision is that Engage actions are to be avoided by Tau in E:A as well.

Therefore, you go back to shooting and some abstractions to make certain units viable and account for the artificial removal of their FF potential.

If you look across the board in tau, their FF values are about 1 less than one you would expect in MOST cases. Some exceptions are made. In some areas, they are 2 less than what you would expect (manta).

cheers,




_________________
Rob
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
clausewitz
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 9:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
Posts: 916
Location: Glasgow, Scotland
Tactica, its worth remembering that EA is not a conversion of W40K to a bigger scale.  It is a different game.  Yes, it uses the same made up background, but how that background is interpreted does not have to be the same in both games.

The concept we are trying to represent is that the Tau prefer to stand off and shoot their enemies, rather than fight up close and personal.  In EA that equates to staying out of assaults in preference. Even if that results in some discrepancies in how they perform in 40k.

Hmm, I'm stating the obvious again :D
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
VanDamneg
 Post subject: Firewarriors
PostPosted: Sat Mar 11, 2006 12:12 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:43 pm
Posts: 24
Quote (clausewitz @ 10 Mar. 2006 (11:08))
VanDamneg, pretty much all the Tau units have artificially low FF values. ?This is to discourage the Tau from initiating assaults. ?Part of the character of the army.

Fire Warriors already have 2x AP5+ shots. ?One at 30cm and one at 15cm with disrupt. ?Not sure what you are suggesting regards that.

Sorry not very explicit.  I meant 2 pulse rifle shots rather than one pulse rifle and one pulse carbine.  The low FF makes sense which is good as I'd rather they didn't increase their FF.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 3 of 4
  [ 49 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net