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Tau lander?

Xisor

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:08 pm

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Yeah, I can see that as a possibility on restriction. However, I'd still be inclined to support a ~6 Tank Hull 'drop', not even necesserilly from 'high atmosphere', it could be extremely low, almost support craft level, but the 'shipboard' weapons would be busy 'generally' elsewhere, except for the weapons currently deployed against the surface forces(so the ordnance turrets and such would not be applied against ground forces), but because of the sheer size of the ship, it doesn't 'affect' the tabletop other than as a spaceship and it's 'drop cadre' effects.

The rule however, is a decent one IMO. Any 'transported' unit that doesn't have it yet, gains the planetfall ability.

Again though, I'd still be inclined to push for tanks and such to be able to deploy from the Emissary to. Why? Well if they're on board, the Emissary must be lower down in the atmosphere, if they're not, the Emissary can drop from higher up, but eitherway the effect in game could be argued to be the same.

And it makes for a cool way to deploy a sizeable tank detahment, 4 from a Manta really isn't much.

Xisor

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Nerroth

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 8:18 pm

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Cool way or no, I'd see the AVs as able to hover and skim over the surface and not much else - which is why a Manta has to hover itself to off-load them - and why I reasoned on a converted Manta for carrying more AVs.

I don't see the Emissary doing the same - in my view, it would only land in a secure LZ, nowhere near the front lines.

Or wait for the Couriers to show up (if at all)

Remember, I only advocate Planetfall for specific units (Narwhal, Dragonet, Jet Pack units) which don't already have them...

(Perhaps this can be a point of distinction between a Protector and an Emissary doing such a raid: The Protector can use a Manta to ferry down AVs and provide heavy fire support, but can't grant the Planetfall ability to anything that doesn't have it, while the Emissary does as I have described earlier)

Gary

Gary

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Xisor

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:31 pm

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Exactly, and this 'largely' covers the idea of a 'Drop Cadre' mentioned half-heartedly in other threads.

So, what about the capacities for it? I propose:

2 Orca Equivalents
1 Cadre and 1 Contingent's Worth of Infantry
'Adequate Barracuda Cover', but this isn't actually a factor(just for fluff reasons), one variant seems to be coming with a full 'Wing' Squadron of BCs, the other(the IC one) seems to be aiming at 'only a handful of BCs'

EDIT: Of course the Orca Equivs are also free to carry whatever things they can too. Is two a 'viable' number, or does it just lead to odd 'unit' sizes?

Also, perhaps the addition of a 0-1 Deployment of 'turrets'?

Xisor

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Nerroth

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 11:58 pm

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Well, a fighter stand in BFG usually represents about 5 fighters, so we could say up to 2 squadrons of Barras (Epic squadrons have 3 fighters each), with the option of ditching one of those squadrons for 1-2 'Sharks.

2 Orcas would be enough for 18 stands of regular infantry (or 8 Crisis or Broadside stands...), so the only limitation we really need to make is that any units without jet packs have to be transported by Orca - and therefore you have to choose units, upgrades etc accordingly!

We can have formations of Crisis and Stealth teams (+ Drones and/or heavy drones, as they have Tau jet packs too) drop directly from the Emissary while it's in the atmosphere, which will free up space on the Orcas for things like Broadsides, Fire Warriors, Pathfinders etc.

I wonder how many formations of Crisis or Stealth we can assume are on board the ship, available to drop?

Regarding the turrets, maybe we could either leave them in an Orca (as written already) or allow a Tiger Shark to drop them too - since they are bigger than drones, make them take up the space of 2 kor'vesa?

Or say they have drone-type jet packs for landing and drop 0-1 from the Emissary, as you suggest. (Sensor turrets, too!)

Gary

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Xisor

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:05 am

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I'd think there'd only be enough for about 2-3 'drops', but obviously, they can't all deploy or it'd leave the Emissary without the ability to make it's FWST attacks. The Custodian I proposed kept a 'standing crew' of 8, 10, 12 Cadres? I can't remember now. :(8:

The Emissary being as light as it is, I'd expect it's Cadres still to be a bit more 'elite' than your average cruiser. This ship could be dropping them in with a Battlebarge following it....

For turrets, 1 detachment seems fine to me. A good way to reinforce a 'drop sight' or an objective thats soon to be taken(or at least reinforce somewhere...).

Essentially, I guess, the Emissary quite closely parallels the Astartes Strike Cruiser now, to a degree.

Lastly, regarding Tigersharks. I don't know how big they are compared to Orcas, but I see Orca Variants only 'just' fitting out of the launchbays, I don't think TSs would be quite capable, but I could be way off with my sizes.

Xisor

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Nerroth

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:34 am

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I remember that I wanted the Emissary to fulfil precisely that role when I wrote rules for it back when the ship was first released...I still called it Gharial in Tau too!

Wow, I'm getting old...

TSs are much smaller than Orcas, you are way off with your sizes! (heehee)

Consider that FW sell 1 Orca for ?16 and 2 TSs for ?14 (have a look over at FW to see, the 40K Orca is almost twice the cost of the TS in that scale)

And consider that on Taros there were most likely over a hundred Hunter Cadres in theatre (althoug they were most likey a gradual buildup!)

I'd say at least four total on an Emissary, six on a Protector, eight on a CPF Hero and sixteen-to-twenty on a Custodian. At least two, and at most four or five, would remain onboard the ship, leaving the rest for drops.

There'd be room for a Gue'senshi regiment on each cruiser type (Probably not the Emissary), and 3-4 on the Custodian - not sure whether they would take the place of HCs on board, or have their own compartment.

Gary

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Tastyfish

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:58 am

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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:35 pm
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They are very different shapes though - an Orca could squeeze out of a small gap than a Tigershark, despite being more massive as its not as wide, though it seems odd that the bay would be built like this.

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Xisor

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:00 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
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Ah, I don't mean 'full capacity', I mean the standing force of a ship 'generally' for the CPF.

So 2-3 for an Emissary, 3-6 For a Protector and 6-12 for a Custodian.

For 'full' capacities, I imagine they'd be about double all that.

My point on size being width, not mass. What's the wingspans of each? Sufficiently similar to count?

If so, then I'm happy to go at an exchange rate of 2 TSs for 1 Orca. Would that work?(Jesus! The Emissary just became a master drone deployment ship!)

NB- Drones could also do the 'free' drop alongside stealthsuits and crisis suits. Perhaps the allowance for an 'Heavily Automated Drop Cadre' that only goes through the Emissary, ie a cadre consisting of Heavy Drones?

As for the original Gharial suggestions you made, I'm quite sure I remember those! That was at the time where we were told the Emissary was an 'older' hull, not a newer one, yes?

EDIT: I'm still thinking of the Lbs as the little porthole things they fly out of on Firewarrior. I believe was 'corrected' this to be the forward facing 'runways' and attendant hole-hangars either side of the main fuselage? If this is the way to go, Tigersharks could easily fit in there IMO.

Xisor

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Nerroth

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 1:17 am

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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
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I refused to buy that 'older design' crap long before SG finally saw sense with the Qath'fannor! (I still think they were pissed at the thunder being stolen from their metal ships - less of an issue now SG has been emasculated)

I'd say go with those runway thingies, I hadn't thought of them much before but Shin makes a relevant point (especially now I'm not trying to work out how to fit a Manta in there...)

Perhaps the port one is for the space squadron of Barras, the other for the +1 assault point worth of Drop Cadre/Tigersharks/Morays/Orcas/atmospheric fighters.

And you may notice I mentioned the Drone Jet Pack thing already....

Gary

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Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers

v7.3 pdf

Human armed forces for the greater good.

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Xisor

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 2:24 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
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Ah yes, but I was just awed by the prospect of:

Crisis Cadre + ALL Drone supports
Drone Contingent + ALL Drone supports
2 Orcas/4 Tigersharks worth of Drones

And thought to myself "Hmm, alot of drones eh?"

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Nerroth

Post subject: Tau lander?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:03 pm

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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
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Well I'd restrict the choice to 2 'Sharks, so at least 1 Barracuda squadron would have to be taken.

Got a point about the drones, though - seems reasonable for plenty of cannon fodder to protect the Drop Cadre!

Gary

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Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers

v7.3 pdf

Human armed forces for the greater good.

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