Ben and Steve, I'm keeping my eyes on this thread.  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I like the look of E&Cs list and will get a playtest of it up in a few weeks. Man of Kent isn't free to play for a couple of weeks and we're planning our first 5k game for then, so I'll suggest a 3k game using this list for whenever our game after that may be.

I do like some things in the list but not others and I think the central tenet of the list is a useing a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

I was responding as I just don't believe in the assertions that your list is universally popular - perhaps these people have not got involved as they put a lot of time and effort into testing 5.x only to have the rug pulled from beneath them.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

What is it with the Tau that makes people jump at each other's throats even when it seems that everything is going well.

I swear, it's like the apple of Eris

I think it's more "The Resin of Forgeworld"...  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

"Raisin of Forgeworld" would sound better.

Well, I feel the resin is the reason for the risin' of the ragin'!  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

1. This topic is not going to turn into a series of accusations, slams, and personal attacks. Both fighters need to break and go to your corners. If need be, CS and I will shut down all comments on the Tau board for an undisclosed period of time until participants cool down. We've done it in the past and would rather not have to take a drastic action again.

And if you don't think I'm serious, just ask me how much I'd like Christmas off.

2. Playtesting is still the key driver. ALL playtests will be used as evidence for change.

3. Reasonable people should save their energy and not get their knickers in a twist over rumors and hearsay. So be reasonable.

Since E&C has finalized his cut, I'll start sometime tomorrow on my analysis. I may ask individuals for clarification on their comments or observations. So don't be surprised if you hear from me. You're not getting a secret "in", but an opportunity to share your honest thoughts without worrying about what others think.

In the end, once I think I am close, I will also post a commentary on why I did what I did.

THEN, you will have 30 days to playtest, stomp your feet, playtest, hold your breath, playtest, whine, playtest, present articulate arguments, etc. before we freeze the code.

Think long and hard on what type of feedback I'll be more open to.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Accusatory, hostile, superior-sounding, and entirely biased?  

I'll have to change my whole debate style!  

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I'm not being sarcastic here but, will they? Sometimes I wonder if my feedback is of any use. I'm really not trying to attack you here Honda - that's not my intention at all -  but so far, on occasion, whenever people have agreed on something you have completely ignored it and done something else. It's why I personally have been so frustrated with 4.X to 5.X so far - perhaps others too, I can't say for sure. I think it's one of the reasons why I get so negative all the time. I've played a lot of Tau(really its the only army I've played for the last 2 years or more) and it's been so frustrating to like something that works fairly for both sides and then have it yanked out of the list.


30 days? For some of us that's a pointless timeframe. I am lucky to get a solid game in monthly. I had 2 games fall through this week alone :-( I doubt there's been 5 Tau batreps over any 30 day period, in any incarnation of the list. Can we please have a little more time than this? Thanks.

Quote: 

One thing. I haven't tested E&Cs list (partly as the original version dropped Stingray and Scorpionfish ... not following it I have no idea oabout the situation now). I have playtested the v5 rather much though. I posted my opinions on what is required with it. However it seems that you for some strange reason seem to prefer post count instead of playtesting when it comes to selecting improvements.

Hena, you really owe it to at least yourself and then the rest of us to playtest it, rather than sticking your head in the sand because there's no Stingray or Scorpionfish. Seriously the list works quite well without these units.

Dobbsy,

Alls good. We're all frustrated with this exercise. All of us. We'll get there, hang in there.



Let me clarify this statement a bit. The purpose of this phase is to review, settle issues (or have them settled), in preparation for the playtesting period. I don't think your request for additional time is unwarranted. So let me get the blended version out and then we'll talk.



Yep, that's me, I love abuse.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

If all you want is a balanced army list, then 5.x is nigh-perfect.

If you want an army list that reflects the Tau way of war as described in the background (and as shown to a limited extent in Warhammer 40,000), then 5.x is flawed.

My proposal is entirely based on making the Tau army list more representative of the background, and has gained acclaim not because it looks to balance the list (in fact it will undoubtedly unbalance the list for a while), but because it makes the Tau army list play like a Tau army, instead of like something that is Tau-ish.

So if all you want is a balanced game experience, continue to use and develop 5.x.


=====

The above is my opinion, and is also the majority opinion, as vocalised, on this forum.




You could playtest my proposal and say things like "I don't like the way this list plays, for the following reasons...." instead of ignoring the process.

The Army Champion asked for playtests of this proposal, and some were provided (a few full battle reports, and a greater selection of more brief reports). Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that everyone who playtested the proposal said they enjoyed the game style more than they enjoyed the 5.x game style.

Saying that you have been given no chance to voice your dissatisfaction with the process/proposed game style is incorrect.

Honda has said there will be a 30 day testing period before the stress-testing lockdown, and I would encourage you to test the list and voice your feelings then.

Honda is not an unreasonable man, but it is unreasonable to expect him to heed complaints about changes that do not come from experience.

I am quite certain that Honda will do his best to follow the will of the majority of playtesters, with strength and decisiveness, as every good Champion should.

In other words, playtesting matters, even if you only play the list proposal once and then, with experience on your shoulder, declaim it as inferior to 5.x.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Yeah their have been

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I think 30 days is fine.

If people care about the future of the Tau list, they will find the time to playtest at least once, if not a full battle report then at least a report with a couple of paragraphs of their impressions and opinions.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter