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V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
CyberShadow	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 12:00 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	Did make me remember one advantage to the combined formation though, you assign the hits then roll saves, so whereas 5 hits would almost certainly kill one tank here it would probably just damage them both. Ummm, actually that was what I was trying to say.   While the formation may be broken, there is still the opportunity to fall back and recover without any loss to offensive capacity of the formation. OK, for upgrades, lets go for: Networked drones, drones and heavy drones I will probably take a Tetra contingent with this just because it looks cool!   OK. As far as I can tell, that is the discussion done for the next version. I will now update the file and send it to the Vault. I will let you know when this is dispatched. After sending it (or as soon as it appears in the Vault), I will upload it here as well. Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.

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Tactica	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 12:10 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	cool. PS... OK, for upgrades, lets go for: Networked drones, drones and heavy drones ...and 'Dragonfish' upgade, which adds SC + Deflector based upon your page 18 post. _________________ Rob

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HecklerMD	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:44 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am Posts: 201	Networked drones, drones and heavy drones Those upgrades sound fine, and I'm glad were not allowing a Skyray upgrade:  AA + more seekers would be too much of a no-brainer.

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Tactica	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Heckler, I only mentioned it because TRC originally made the recomendation and it went un-challenged. I'm on board with the no-AA recomendation as well. Cheers, _________________ Rob
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Honda

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 2:35 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I'm on board with the no-AA recomendation as well. I'm not, but not willing to push the issue at this point. And if you're wondering why I might say that, let me recap a recent action I faced. Replace the HH formation with your precious Shas'o flying around in the biggest thing on the board. Niko: ?Where?s your break your spirit formation?? Dad: ?It?s called Break Their Spirit? Niko: ?Right, where is it?? Dad: ?It?s that Hammerhead formation over there? Niko: ?Good. I?m going to air assault that formation with my Thunderhawk, Dreadnought, and Tactical squad? Dad: ?I have CAP up, I?m going to intercept? Niko: ?So do I. Good, no hits on me and I shot down two of your Barracudas. Now I?m going in? Dad: ?Wait a minute, I?ve got flak? Niko: ?Good, they all miss (8 x IC-HH). I?m going in? Dad: ?Hah! All the macro weapon hits from your dreadnought missed? Niko: ?Good, I broke you anyway? So after he catches his breath? Niko: ?I?m going to retain? Dad: ?You are?? Niko: ?Yes. Good your flak missed again (2 x IC-HH)? Dad: ?Grrr? Niko: ?Good, I killed the rest of them. I got your break your spirit? Dad: ?It?s called Break Your Spirit? Niko: ?Right. Yours is dead? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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clausewitz	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm Posts: 916 Location: Glasgow, Scotland	Doesn't sound as if an extra skyray would have stopped that though (Sounds like Dad needs new dice  )
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Tactica

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:17 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

I'm not, but not willing to push the issue at this point. And if you're wondering why I might say that, let me recap a recent action I faced. Replace the HH formation with your precious Shas'o flying around in the biggest thing on the board. Niko: ?Where?s your break your spirit formation?? Dad: ?It?s called Break Their Spirit? Niko: ?Right, where is it?? Dad: ?It?s that Hammerhead formation over there? Niko: ?Good. I?m going to air assault that formation with my Thunderhawk, Dreadnought, and Tactical squad? Dad: ?I have CAP up, I?m going to intercept? Niko: ?So do I. Good, no hits on me and I shot down two of your Barracudas. Now I?m going in? Dad: ?Wait a minute, I?ve got flak? Niko: ?Good, they all miss (8 x IC-HH). I?m going in? Dad: ?Hah! All the macro weapon hits from your dreadnought missed? Niko: ?Good, I broke you anyway? So after he catches his breath? Niko: ?I?m going to retain? Dad: ?You are?? Niko: ?Yes. Good your flak missed again (2 x IC-HH)? Dad: ?Grrr? Niko: ?Good, I killed the rest of them. I got your break your spirit? Dad: ?It?s called Break Your Spirit? Niko: ?Right. Yours is dead? ROFLMAO - I really laughed hard when reading this. That was great. Go Niko - ata'boy! -------- + + + Commence tongue in cheek post for Honda + + + Ok that said, even though you needed someone to cast a Level 20, "Summon New Dice" spell for you, your formation would have probably still got sacked as stopping those kinds of assaults are tough. Even if we assume tactics were 100% sound on both sides and dice were the only failing element on Dad's side, you didn't tell us if you won this game. Isn't that a pertinent peace of information? Hypothetical, my thunderbolts don't have AA tail guns and the Helltalons were always coming in behind them and blowing them up. Therefore, they need AA tail guns... except what I didn't tell you is that my hydras were always blowing up the Helltalons, and I also won the game. If you won this game, lets say - by 3-1... ...couldn't one look at your suggestion (assume the HH were Scorpionfish) and say, well - Niko took a risk and drove in to air assault an enemy formation that may/may not be unprotected. He maximized the effectiveness of his offensive asset to effectively neurtralize a target of opportunity relevent to his air asset. However, in the grand scheme of things - perhaps knowing you didn't have a chance vs. an air assault, infantry insulating the perimeter of the precious Scorpionfish may have been advisable to add FF. Furthermore, If you won the game, you effectively still countered the very effective air assault after taking your lumps. So wouldn't one argue that although Niko gave Dad a good beating there on that front, in the end, the lack of the AA didn't matter for the Scorps - even with Dad's dice - as the weakness was overcome in tactics utilizing the other assets in the list that were not yet damaged. Isn't that balance exactly what we strive for? Therefore, couldn't we reasonably embrace the Scorps not having the AA element from this example? Honda - I know you said you weren't going to press the issue. So no worries. Just thought I'd throw this out there in case it presented a new perspective that perhaps was overlooked. If it doesn't present anything new. No worries. Dismiss my comments. Cheers, _________________ Rob

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CyberShadow	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:18 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	I dont want to push this, as the Skyray wont be available in the first instance of the Scorpionfish in version 4.4. However, I think that I might be missing something, as I cant quite understand what the driving point is here. You could just add the extra lines... Dad: ?Wait a minute, I?ve got Skyray? Niko: ?Good, they all miss. I?m going in? The point is that we should not legislate to stop something happening, and that the dice can be fickle friends. The fact that eight IonHeads failed to stop the air attack, after CAP just resulted in downed Barracudas, doesnt necessarily make a case for AA in the formation. Sorry if I am missing the point here. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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HecklerMD	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:45 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sun Jan 02, 2005 5:42 am Posts: 201	Well, Niko's CAP should not have been able to intercept Hondas CAP, so Hondas 3x Barracudas should have had a free run at the first THawk, and if they wanted to brave its 15CM AA they could have gotten 3x AA4+ and 6xAA5+ shots @15 CM. Which, considering how damn tough THawks are, might have been enough, except with Honda throwing the dice I dont know what another Skyray might have done here.
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Tactica	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	@Heckler, LOL All, Right, so... lingering issues with the Scorp or are we good to go? _________________ Rob
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Honda	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 6:43 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Ok, I think this is spinning off the path, probably helped with my humorous interjection. My point, which I am restating as I am not going to push the issue at this point, is that a high value target like the Scorpionfish probably, and this is my PoV, probably deserves the benefit of it's own AA just on general principle. My point in making this statement is not to legislate against air attacks, but to bring up the "forest" view of the formation. There are naval equivalent analogies if the discussion was going to go that way, which again, I am not in the favor of pursuing at this time. It just seems odd to me that a race would design the Scorpionfish "capability" without including some level of onboard AA protection. Again, just a personal observation, I'm not requesting a change to the stats at this time, but I wanted to be clear that if there are those that don't mind not having AA capabilities in the unit, I am not among them. Is my intent clearer? _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:02 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	I do think that the 2 strong shoal justifies having AA cover due to its value - however the 1 fish shoal would allow potentially two many skyrays to be present. _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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CyberShadow	Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:12 pm
Swarm Tyrant Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm Posts: 9348 Location: Singapore	Honda. I understand and appreciate your attempt not to let this topic derail discussion. For the record, I agree that this thing would probably need AA support, but that the combined arms approach of the Tau is likely to restrict this to a close supporting, seperate formation. Thanks. _________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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