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Something Silly
Ilushia	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 2:03 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Lemme know how this monstrosity does for you Honda! Originally I had the SC and one other Scorpionfish in a formation together, as this would allow them to be spread out across 45cm and still be close enough to use Coordinated Fire to get all four Scorpionfish to fire at the same target at the same time (OUCH!) but I went for 4 separate formations to push activations up to 8, now 9 since it picked up an extra Drone squad. Here's the current version of the list: Tau Mobile Armor Force 2700 Points Cadres: Armoured Mobile Hunter Cadre (375) 4x Ion Hammerheads 2x Swordfish (+25) 1x Skyray (+75) Networked Drones (+25) Armoured Mobile Hunter Cadre (375) 4x Ion Hammerheads 2x Swordfish (+25) 1x Skyray (+75) Armoured Mobile Hunter Cadre (375) 4x Ion Hammerheads 2x Swordfish (+25) 1x Skyray (+75) Contengents: Scorpionfish Contingent (325) 1x Scorpionfish + Supreme Commander (+100) Scorpionfish Contingent (225) 1x Scorpionfish Scorpionfish Contingent (225) 1x Scorpionfish Scorpionfish Contingent (225) 1x Scorpionfish Gun Drone Squadron (75) 4x Heavy Gun Drones (50) Gun Drone Squadron (75) 4x Heavy Gun Drones (50) Feel free to make use of it. Just lemme know how it does!
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nealhunt	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Thu May 25, 2006 3:11 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Quote (Tactica @ 25 May 2006 (01:22)) Man... I played against a chaos force this past weekend that would make me never play an all armor force. I hate higher strategy teleporting, podding, planetfalling, air assaulting hand to hand specialists when i'm playing Tau! So, can you give a quick and dirty version of the batrep and impressions of the CSM list? _________________ Neal
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Tactica	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 4:56 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	NH, It was a scenerio game and probably wouldn't do justice in forum post, especially since this is Thursday and I didn't take notes... it was a fun game afterall. Both lists were constrained and abstract. It was a very imbalanced game in the chaos' favor, though they were subject to a forced reinforcements each turn in sort of a 40K escalation model. Tau force was a ~1700 expeditionary mechanized force on patrol (I didn't add it up, I was just told what to field). They ran into a chaos drop zone on a planet. Nothing was there yet in the hex when Tau moved in, chaos got the 'campaign' initiative on them though during the next phase before Tau could safely boogie on out - so... 'summon chaos incursion'. I didn't add up the chaos, I know they just kept coming in through two chaos gates! (very similar to the Eldar Gate in E:A for purposes of play, but one of them was dumping vehicles in from about 20cm up from his table edge and about 40cm over from his right side table edge!) The previously learned but unavoidable 'lesson' to be on full display during that game was what podding and teleport with higher strategy can do to an all vehicle force that can only hope to force FF in combat. When you are facing either numbers (damn deamons!), lessor BM, inspiring, well... the outcome is a bit forseeable. It was OK though, Tau will strike back with a vengence in the mini campaign - all in due time. (we have a secret weapon nearby) Overall feel of the chaos E:A list - I don't understand some of the SHT/titan rule needs, I'd still like to see the 'only 1' SC rules clarified, and BM immunity is something to behold. I still feel like 3.7 is a bit strong, but its much better than previous versions - I do have to admit. cheers, _________________ Rob
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Honda	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 1:51 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Just a brief note on my battle last night. I opted out of going with the "Something Silly" configuration (SSC) as the longer I looked at it, the more vulnerable it became, especially against the Orks I was going to face. So, I ended up running with a modified list that was armor heavy and in the end, my high mobility list struggled against the Ork large formations, with the Orks scoring a major wipeout by Turn 3. I will file a full report later. The game was at 2700 pts. Still it was close through the front half of Turn 3 and if not for some unfortunate exchanges towards the latter end, I might have pulled a draw out. What's really interesting from our group's perspective is that although none of us considers the Orks to be OTT, their win/loss record is quite astounding vs. all opponents. The Ork player knows how to play the Orks (in Epic and 40K) and he doesn't really change his plan or his list, yet we all struggle to stop him from enforcing his will at the end of the day. The Tau tend to do a bit better against him than other lists, but he still spanks us pretty badly whenever anyone gets a match. Unfortunately, we'll be losing him as a player in about 30 days, but New Mexico will be one Ork richer. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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nealhunt

Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:36 pm

Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA

Overall feel of the chaos E:A list - I don't understand some of the SHT/titan rule needs, I'd still like to see the 'only 1' SC rules clarified, and BM immunity is something to behold. I still feel like 3.7 is a bit strong, but its much better than previous versions - I do have to admit. Fair enough.  I still have a couple reservations about the list but I don't think it's out of whack and I'm not in the driver's seat. _________________ Neal

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nealhunt	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 2:37 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Honda:  What's the list the ork player takes? _________________ Neal
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Honda

Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:01 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

@Neal 3 fighta-bomba squads (3 per Squad) 2 ?uge Blitz Brigades with the 50/50 mix of flakwagons/gunwagons with the 3 Oddboy titan killers 1 Kult of speed 3 bikers, 1 buggie, 2 skorchas and a gunwagon-oodboy 6 Stormboys Nahguls Big mob with 2 big gunz-Odd boy super guns and a Komando Gralocks Big Mob with 2 big-gunz-Odd boy super guns, Stompa, and 2 Komandos As you can see, it's not what anyone would consider out of bounds as far as selections go, but this is what we face nearly every game. I would say his winning percentage is around +85% of his games against all types of opponents except Chaos, as we don't have anyone playing them. I've also used his list (or some variation of it) in map exercises and it has won there as well, so it's not just him. His usual method of operation is early in the game, use the fighta-bommas to delay activations when necessary to discern the opponents intent. In latter turns the FB's are used to apply blast markers and run to ground broken units. His set up is usually the same: The big mobs garrison getting as close to midfield as possible, the Blitz brigades sit on the baseline and drive down the flanks, the KoS looks for targets of opportunity, and the Stormboyz usually hold his Blitz until later in Turn 2 or 3, then move up into your zone to either contest an objective or pick on broken or damaged units. So, nothing really clever there, it's pretty much an adaptation of a Modern Russian mechanized group. I fielded: 1 x AMHC (8 x IC-HH, Skyray, Networked Drones) 1 x AMHC (6 x RG-HH, Skyray, Networked Drones) 2 x Lt. Recon (3 x Tetra, 10 x Piranha) 1 x Stingray (6 x Stingray) 1 x Scorpionfish 1 x Scorpionfish + Shas'o upgrade 1 x Sentry Towers (6 x Sentries) Last night, the long range Tau guns were able to put a fair number of hits on his follow on forces, but as the inevitable formation exchanges began taking place, I struggled to maintain my momentum. So, although the end result was pretty nasty, it was close up until the end when a couple things didn't go my way. Unfortunately, that's usually how my games go against the Orks. I still consider myself in the learning phase regarding the Tau list as I try different things to see how they interact together. So, this isn't a complaint by any means. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Ilushia	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 6:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon May 08, 2006 10:50 am Posts: 1189	Quote (Honda @ 26 May 2006 (13:51)) Just a brief note on my battle last night. I opted out of going with the "Something Silly" configuration (SSC) as the longer I looked at it, the more vulnerable it became, especially against the Orks I was going to face. So, I ended up running with a modified list that was armor heavy and in the end, my high mobility list struggled against the Ork large formations, with the Orks scoring a major wipeout by Turn 3. I will file a full report later. The game was at 2700 pts. Still it was close through the front half of Turn 3 and if not for some unfortunate exchanges towards the latter end, I might have pulled a draw out. What's really interesting from our group's perspective is that although none of us considers the Orks to be OTT, their win/loss record is quite astounding vs. all opponents. The Ork player knows how to play the Orks (in Epic and 40K) and he doesn't really change his plan or his list, yet we all struggle to stop him from enforcing his will at the end of the day. The Tau tend to do a bit better against him than other lists, but he still spanks us pretty badly whenever anyone gets a match. Unfortunately, we'll be losing him as a player in about 30 days, but New Mexico will be one Ork richer. Orks always struck me as one of those wonderously robust lists. They've got huge numbers, not too bad of guns, and the ability to hedge in the enemy through sheer damage-absorbing bodies. They're hard to stop, do lots of damage, and can survive almost anything you care to throw at them. Plus they're cheap. 30 bases for just 500 points. 30 bases of IG costs you something like 600 points. And is probably worse, over all, due to their 'only half the unit gets weapons' and lack of armor saves. But not a whole lot worse. Sounds like you've got a fairly good player who's hit on a design which works very very well. Let us hear what his list was, I'm kinda currious if it's really winning that consistently.
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nealhunt	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Fri May 26, 2006 9:19 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Quote (Honda @ 26 May 2006 (18:01)) 3 fighta-bomba squads (3 per Squad) 2 ?uge Blitz Brigades with the 50/50 mix of flakwagons/gunwagons with the 3 Oddboy titan killers 1 Kult of speed 3 bikers, 1 buggie, 2 skorchas and a gunwagon-oodboy 6 Stormboys Nahguls Big mob with 2 big gunz-Odd boy super guns and a Komando Gralocks Big Mob with 2 big-gunz-Odd boy super guns, Stompa, and 2 Komandos It might be the Uge Blitz Brigades that are tipping the balance.  I have been concerned both over the size of the discount for them and the effectiveness of massed Zzap guns.  Those formations take full advantage of both. Just as a SWAG, I'd say two of them have about 100-150 points in extra value above the actual point cost. Not that I blame him a bit.  I confess my standard composition for blitz Brigades is 2 flak/1 gun/1 zzap, multiplied by whatever size mob I take.  It's just hard to resist. _________________ Neal
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Tactica

Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 5:46 am

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241

Quote (nealhunt @ 26 May 2006 (08:36)) Overall feel of the chaos E:A list - I don't understand some of the SHT/titan rule needs, I'd still like to see the 'only 1' SC rules clarified, and BM immunity is something to behold. I still feel like 3.7 is a bit strong, but its much better than previous versions - I do have to admit. Fair enough. ?I still have a couple reservations about the list but I don't think it's out of whack and I'm not in the driver's seat. NH, Although my current 3.7 experience is limited, I think your summation is probably on par. I don't get the impression that the list is out of whack either (now). Cheers, _________________ Rob

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Tactica	Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 6:00 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Honda, In the games I have managed to win against the orks, they've nevery been wipe outs and have almost always been very very close games. I did have an ork self implode once - which was just commical, but besides that game... very very close battles when I can pull out the win. Managing the body count with the Orks is crucial. They can field a terrible amount of bodies. My successes against the orks have been in fending off the Landa assault via bulked up formations backing each other up, but remaining mindful of the soopa zzap guns or whatever their called with the blast templates. I seem to always have to resort to attempting a crossfire or two before its all said and done, and without fail - relying on my movement and objective placement I feel is pretty key when I'm running my Tau vs orks. I like the orks to have to put some distance between their objectives and my tau - then use my move to bypass the orks in land grab. I spend the majority of the game working to eliminate their air assets, and widdle down a formation or two so i can prepare for a major pounce on some large mob that will almost always end up stretching out like crazy to contest a host of things. If I've managed the activation game well, I then close with widdling down the 'edges' of stretched out land grab formations to capitalize. I'm sure its not the most sound plan, but it seems to be 'generally' what gets me through my games against the green E:A tide... hopefully you can glean something useful out of this 12:00 AM ramble. Looking forward to your full bat rep if you get the time! PS - interested to see the contrast of what you took vs. what you feel may have been if you did take the full on SSC you were contemplating. Cheers, _________________ Rob
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Honda

Post subject: Something Silly Posted: Sat May 27, 2006 8:54 am

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

PS - interested to see the contrast of what you took vs. what you feel may have been if you did take the full on SSC you were contemplating. It's a fair point since the end result wasn't much to write home about. Where I began to struggle with the SSC is that the AMHC's need something to keep the rapidly advancing ork formations at arms reach so they can do their thing. I've been using the Lt. Recon formations (3 x tetras, 10 x Piranhas) to do that. Without them, then by the second turn, I end up facing large numbers of engages or even worse, one unit that just gets in engage range, then draws on the supporting fire of those large formations. Also, if I have to lose a Lt. Recon, my whole plan doesn't go into the tank. I will review your experiences and absorb. Shawn (the Ork player) doesn't bother with anything tricky as he's seen his stuff accomplish his battle plans, so doesn't need what he considers gimmicks. As long as he has more guyz than you have bullets, you lose. Reflecting on what Neal mentioned previously, if his blitz brigade costs were bumped as you mentioned, and let's say that I was facing 25% less tanks, then I'd say I would have had a much better chance of getting a draw to possible win. So I think you're on the right track. Somehow, with those large formations, it seems like he ought to be on the short side of the activation count, whereas he's usually got activations to spare. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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