[batrep] Tau Vs Nid |
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thurse
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid  Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 10:20 am |
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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
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Location: Dundee, Scotland
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I fired on a single formation with :
- 375 points of stingrays
- 475 points of hammerheads/skyrays
- 500 points of hammerheads/skyrays
- 225 points of scorpionfish.
I think it's enough to destroy a single formation...
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ayoras
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 2:31 pm |
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well I don't speak about it and you know it thurse, another time, I speak about the activation of the stingrays which destroyed ALONE ALL the formation (well I mean a lot of brood and 3 synapses). 12 models, 350 pts in one activation, against a covered formation (so normally model have a 4+ save), sure it's normal and balanced. Your others formations only finished an already destroyed formation.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:26 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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The only way that could happen is phenomenally good die rolls.
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Neal
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Ilushia
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:38 pm |
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He must have had awe-inspiringly good dice rolls to kill 12 models with 12 shots... I'm guessing that since it was Turn-1 he used only his submunitions? Or did he move up to use his Smart Missiles? Sounds to me like you got a really bad run of luck in there...
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ayoras
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:29 pm |
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even not! He didn't made especially good dice rolls. Stingray have 18 shots not only 12 (3 shots by model). But with 12 X 3+ IC (he passes about 8 to ten shots, and against termagant, each ones kill a model, even with the cover) it is more simple. Well I did 3 failed roll save at 4+. But the result is here and didn't come from luck, I would search elsewhere.... maybe in the balance of the stingray unit  ....
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thurse
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:42 pm |
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Location: Dundee, Scotland
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To sum up :
-hammerheads 1 : 2 termies
-stringray 1 zooanthrope, 1 ravener, 5 termies, 1 hormagaunt 1 nid warrior
-hammerheads 2 : 1 ravener and 1 warrior.
- scorpionfish 1 hormagaunt, 1 warrior
So that's 9 kill for the stingrays on a target that was lighted and with sustained fire. I'm not sure that it is really overpowered.
Anyway, what I can say about that is that when you fight nids with Tau, the strategy seems rather obvious : concentrate fire power on a swarm to destroy it, and create a breach to use your mobility advantage to the maximum.
If the nid player can't reduce your mobility thanks to ZOC, several swarm in engage range and so on, you are on the way to achieve victory. And I admit that with your list ( I really can't say if it was good or bad ), it was hard for you to threaten units.
Finally, a last point : when I play eldars, I usually have to engage swarms as my AP firepower is not that great. In this case, it is easier for nids, as then can use withdrawal moves to redeploy/hide and after an assault, my troops were much closer to the enemy. As the Tau rarely engage, Nids lose this withdrawal advantage
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Ilushia
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:43 pm |
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| Quote (ayoras @ 18 May 2006 (16:29)) | | even not! He didn't made especially good dice rolls. Stingray have 18 shots not only 12 (3 shots by model). But with 12 X 3+ IC (he passes about 8 to ten shots, and against termagant, each ones kill a model, even with the cover) it is more simple. Well I did 3 failed roll save at 4+. But the result is here and didn't come from luck, I would search elsewhere.... maybe in the balance of the stingray unit .... |
Maybe I'm missing something here... But how (and for that matter why) did you allow your brood to wind up within 30cm of an enemy formation which's sole purpose is to kill units like that one? The Submunition Rounds are 2x AP 5+ base, he'd have to Sustain Fire for it to be 3+ and be within range of markerlights (Off the drones I think he says in the bat-rep), but he'd ALSO have to be within 30cm for the seeker missiles to be able to fire... That seems awfully close for the first turn on a unit which hasn't moved, even with the brood having marched... They're only going to get 45cm even accounting for both starting 15cm into the board. Neither group can garrison due to move-speed constraints... In order for you to wind up within that range you'd have to be playing on a table something like 105cm across. Coincidently if he did recount things accurately in the bat-rep then the Stingrays only killed 10 units. 1 was a Warrior. The Hammerheads finished off the second warrior.
To me this sounds like a classic 'Best case scenario'. You left a brood inside his optimal range, while being marked with marker lights, allowing him the chance to pound them with a unit which exists for the express purpose of pounding such units. Not surprising that he tore it apart. Conversely had it been the brood full of Carnifexes and the Hive Tyrant the same Stingrays would have done virtually nothing to it. Having only 6 AT 3+ shots.
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thurse
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:44 pm |
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Stingray have 18 shots not only 12 (3 shots by model).
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No you have 12 AP shots ( I did 9 hits at 3+ ) and 6AT shots ( which were enough to kill the zooanthrope )
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nealhunt
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 5:57 pm |
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Location: Nashville, TN, USA
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But the result is here and didn't come from luck, I would search elsewhere.... maybe in the balance of the stingray unit... |
Then from Thurse...
-stringray 1 zooanthrope, 1 ravener, 5 termies, 1 hormagaunt 1 nid warrior |
So, we're back to ~200 points of casualties from a 375 point formation firing at an ideal target.
Assuming Thurse is not mistaken in his unit count, this is not a balance issue. This is commensurate with what is normally expected from units firing under optimal conditions.
Assuming similar die rolls (average hits and several failed saves), a 250 point IG Bombard formation would likely have achieved a similar number of hits/kills proportional to its point cost. However, Bombards would not have required a spotter formation (markerlights) to be in a vulnerable position to fire at maximum ability.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: [batrep] Tau Vs Nid Posted: Fri May 19, 2006 4:05 pm |
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| Quote (ayoras @ 19 May 2006 (15:56)) | ragnarok, sorry but you're wrong  . I did exactly that! I hide two main swarms under a cover and it has absolutly not prevented thurse's stingrays to destroy them. It is the reason why I asked this question because even finding and utilising perfectly cover, I wasn't able to avoid the humiliation.
Also, its probably a good idea to have the Nid bio-arty try and drop some BMs on the Stingray formation. ?Its firepower drops off significantly under fire. |
Well.... I had a formation with 4 exocrines (so 4BP disrupt indirect fire). Fire at stingray.... he was well "spaced" (5cm between each stingray) so I was able to hit only 3 models at 3+ rate, so only |
Remember those ships either have to have LoS on you or have to have Markerlights lighting you up. Preferably you'd try to avoid markerlight units wherever possible. One other possibility is to stop behind cover instead of inside cover. Or not crossing far enough up to be able to be seen. Fighting Tau requires very different tactics from fighting most other armies, same as fighting Tyranids does. I'd recommend investing in some Raveners myself. They're more expensive but they have both armor saves and Infiltrate, which makes the Tau's 'run away' move much less meaningful (Sure they run away 10cm, but you charge 40cm, so you still effectively have a 30cm charge-range).
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.............................................. I feel a little bit stupid. It was exactly what I should do. But seriously, with the protection of the cover, I felt safe.
.............................................. I feel a little bit stupid. It was exactly what I should do. But seriously, with the protection of the cover, I felt safe.