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A fun challenge
Ginger
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:00 am 
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Really nice paint job

Cheers

Ginger

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:44 am 
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Brainstorming is really useful when you are looking towards a future of maybe a max of 2 games a month :)

Oh, I do have a game today!

I may get a chance to play against the marines you suggested Tactica. Could you think of such a list before about 7-8pm bangladesh time? :)

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Tactica
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:34 am 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 03 Mar. 2006 (13:49))
Lets be realistic, none of the changes we've been making have undergone such rigorous testing. ?I agree that ideally that would be how things are done, but it is just not possible. (Or am I wrong, does anyone know of an example?)

Cw,

There's definitely been some pretty aggressive playtesting with various parts of the list... Morays, hammerheads, pathfinders, crisis, Firewarriors, and broadsides all come to mind.

However, your point is well received.

My point was - before someone cries foul and stirs up the roost - whether right or wrong, it can be more productive to have the protagonist supply a bit more ammo than "I think this could be abused" before everyone gets their painty's in a bunch over a hypothetical situation.

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dysartes
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 12:01 pm 
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Originally posted by Tactica
My point was - before someone cries foul and stirs up the roost - whether right or wrong, it can be more productive to have the protagonist supply a bit more ammo than "I think this could be abused" before everyone gets their painty's in a bunch over a hypothetical situation.


Isn't that what was done with the "5 Aces" list, though, Tactica? TRC posted a potential problem with the list, then a number of batreps to demonstrate the problem.

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Legion 4
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 4:07 pm 
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Think it is an interesting "Air Assault" concept ... but would be expensive ...

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clausewitz
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:45 pm 
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Cw,
There's definitely been some pretty aggressive playtesting with various parts of the list... Morays, hammerheads, pathfinders, crisis, Firewarriors, and broadsides all come to mind.

I accept that, though not quite tested in the rigorous and organised way you suggested.  And the Orca is something that has seen rather limited use, from what I've seen.  And that use is mainly as a bus from Broadsides, and the occassional FW cadre.

I think its ok for someone to suggest that a certain list may be broken.  It gives us the opportunity for several different people to then consider the potential problem and, ideally, test it out to see if it works.  Its up to us as sensible people not to "get our knickers in a twist" when such a suggestion is made.  Unless the suggestion is followed up be more concrete evidense from testing then it's unlikely that any changes would be made as a result.

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baronpiero
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 5:50 pm 
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TRC:

Well, now that the 5 aces abuse is about to be sorted out, I think we're quite safe for the moment. Personally, I have 3 items to monitor these days:


The Swordfish:

I have no opinion as of yet about their lowered cost. Need to play them to figure out.


The 9 Orcas:

Extra BMs are less of an issue here as compared to the Five Aces IMO. Indeed, the target of choice for the Five Aces were resilient -and rather expensive- targets, whose low unit count per formations made the extra BMs pretty ugly by virtually doubling the number of BMs taken. I don't think that the same could be true about Orcas because they will fail to damage that kind of targets.

So the firepower of the unit is not an issue for me. Still, I think you point about the ability such an army could have to claim objectives is worth looking at.


Coordinate Fire:

Here I think there may be a problem with the Coordinate-Fire + Retain Initiative combo. Each time I could put 5-6 activations to good effect, it appeared pretty ugly, way beyond Eldar retain twice. So I think there could be something to investigate here.



Apart from that, I think that Tau units are ok for the post part.


Finally, here's my current list of the worst Tau units:
- Normal Tigershark
- Normal Drones
- Firewarriors
- Devilfish
- Kroots
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clausewitz
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:01 pm 
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Coordinate Fire:

Here I think there may be a problem with the Coordinate-Fire + Retain Initiative combo. Each time I could put 5-6 activations to good effect, it appeared pretty ugly, way beyond Eldar retain twice.

Even if the Eldar perform a combined assault with three formations (Autarch led), retain and repeat with another three (Avatar led), then retain again...?

From my experience, and from what I've read from others, that kind of tactic usually leaves the majority of your army hanging out ready to be pounded by the rest of your opponents army.

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baronpiero
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:36 pm 
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Sure, you have to ask yourself if it's worth, because that's a lot of energy spent. Last time I used it to good effect was against an ork player at the beginning of turn 2:

Tau win Strategy...

- Activate Tetra. Coordinate Broadsides + Manta to take out a Gargant.

- Retain with Crisis. Coordinate Hammerheads to take out a big warband.

Needless to say the game was an easy win after the two most dangerous formations were wiped out before having the opportunity to play.
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 7:04 pm 
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I'm mixed on the normal TS. I reckon I would put it to the use ground attack wise I do with thunderbolts.

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Squared
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:38 pm 
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Quote (baronpiero @ 04 Mar. 2006 (17:36))
Sure, you have to ask yourself if it's worth, because that's a lot of energy spent. Last time I used it to good effect was against an ork player at the beginning of turn 2:

Tau win Strategy...

- Activate Tetra. Coordinate Broadsides + Manta to take out a Gargant.

- Retain with Crisis. Coordinate Hammerheads to take out a big warband.

Needless to say the game was an easy win after the two most dangerous formations were wiped out before having the opportunity to play.

... wow...

That's scary

I'm an Ork player so probably more sensitive to Ork thrashings but as I remember I have seen more than a few battle reports of Orks being wiped out to a stand or close to it.  Since Orks are not very shooty and have little armor, is the large quanity of firepower available to the Tau able to decimate the Orks too quickly?

^2
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baronpiero
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 12:19 am 
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I have seen more than a few battle reports of Orks being wiped out to a stand or close to it. ?Since Orks are not very shooty and have little armor, is the large quanity of firepower available to the Tau able to decimate the Orks too quickly?


For the record I should clarify for wiped out was a bit strong:

- The gargant was broken 1/8 DC remaining and two criticals (well close to wiped out). I was too far to crossfire it, but rolled extremely well on the railcannons.

- The ork mob was a mechanized one: tanks were wiped out, and enougth infantry stand were killed to break the formation.
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Squared
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 3:09 am 
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Ok, that sounds alot less scary.  Never liked gargants anyways and Ork vehicle formations are really vulnerable to massed AT.

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Steele
 Post subject: A fun challenge
PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 7:47 pm 
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Quote (Hena @ 05 Mar. 2006 (18:16))
I actually think that the 15cm range with coordinated fire is a nasty bit. Would be better (for the opponent) with 5cm. As it would allow opponent to try to get an intermingled assault (the bad side with using leader to do combined assaults). Also it allows unit to try to activate multiple times same as leader, but since shooting is more common to most armies than engage it's better in that respect.

That would be very bad. Which Tau player would like to risk something like that? Few to none I presume. If a reduction is about to be , then 10 cm. You may still be intermingled with Scouts , but it would happen fewer times.

Steele

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