Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? |
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Tactica
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it?  Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:43 am |
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planetfall skimmer makes since on the manta and moray... or planet fall support craft like they are now makes sense... but flier on manta and moray do not make sense!
Orca as a flier, like the tigershark and barracuda - do make sense. Planetfall on the orca also makes sense. Skimmer on any of these three does not make sense.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:46 am |
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Points taken ... and understood ... just my opinion ... 
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RedDevil
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:21 am |
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What are the balance implications of making it both a skimmer and a flyer? IE not a speed of 0 when landed.
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Tactica
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:25 am |
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Red devil, think about what you are saying my friend.
If its a flier, it doesn't fight combat, ignores terrain, and can only be fired on by flak... so why would it be a skimmer at all?
Do you mean making it become a skimmer when it lands instead of making it speed 0?
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Rob
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RedDevil
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:35 am |
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I think you answered your own question.
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blackhorizon
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 7:36 am |
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On the Manta, somewhere I read it could carry four Hammerheads plus hundred of troops, taught the source is the now hidden SG Tau CPF file. Right?
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asaura
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:36 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 14 Nov. 2005 (21:48)) | | What do you think about 75 points AND making the Twin-Linked burst cannons into long barrelled versions taking them from 15cm to 30cm? |
I would still field 2 Orcas pretty much every time if they cost 150 points each.
(edited because I'm dumb)
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Steele
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:25 pm |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 15 Nov. 2005 (00:45)) | CS,
The manta is our big titan... please, PLEASE don't make it a flier (bomber!)
The weapons would become gimped, and its role as our answer for a major titan would become crippled severely.
Giving something with that much firepower full reign of the table in a single move would become broken too.
I would highly caution going forward on this.
There are really good reasons behind either making it a plain skimmer, or staying with support craft.
Cheers, |
Yeah, again I agree with you. Additionally imagine it beeing a Bomber - how much AA is needed to severly hinder it delivering the precious cargo? Would it still count as BTS Goal ? With the great ranges it?s Main Weapons field, how far do I need to go into enemy territory, almost your own table side would suffice! And the major point : Even if not shot down, if it only has 2 to 3 BM?s , it?s return to the table next round would be uncertain, not kind a Unit with 850 Points worth I?d take that often. And if I were my enemy - as soon as I get the Idea of it, I would field more AA, just to be certain that it does not come every turn.
Just my 2 Cent.
Cheers!
Steele
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Honda
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 2:22 pm |
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The manta is our big titan... please, PLEASE don't make it a flier (bomber!)
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I am in strong agreement with this statement.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 4:08 pm |
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Well as I said we'll give the Manta and Orca - PF & Skimmer ... making the Orca an aicraft does not work for us ! I think one of the tactics I'll use the Orca for is to drop Sentry Towers ... that may be one of it's main function in my T&K. IMO the strength and ability to land troops and AFVs on enemy flanks and rear plus supporting them with fightpower is a proven tactic ...
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 6:42 pm |
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Hi guys. I dont plan on neutering the Manta in any way. However, it does represent one of the most difficult elements to balance in my eyes. On the one hand, it is a hugley costly unit, which has a limited 'on table' presence, while on the other hand imagine if the Imperials suddenly decided that their Titans can carry an entire formation.
I didnt mean to panic you all, just to point out that I am considering how best to approach this behemoth.
Thanks.
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Steele
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:00 pm |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 15 Nov. 2005 (18:42)) | Hi guys. I dont plan on neutering the Manta in any way. However, it does represent one of the most difficult elements to balance in my eyes. On the one hand, it is a hugley costly unit, which has a limited 'on table' presence, while on the other hand imagine if the Imperials suddenly decided that their Titans can carry an entire formation.
I didnt mean to panic you all, just to point out that I am considering how best to approach this behemoth.
Thanks. |
Maybe I can?t get you right. But are you thinking that the Manta has not yet lived up to it?s potential?
I don?t think the Imperials would do that. The Titans remained the most powerful Warmachines they can field, as they are since the first Release of Adeptus Titanicus. And the only one ever carrying Units was the Emperor Titan, which hasn?t even reached experimental status today. Frankly speaking, the Manta as is , is working fine, as are all support craft. With their strength and weaknesses. They can all be improved from a players perspective, who is to blame them? So far I have played with them, none of my opponents nodded the abilities of them. They were respected and seen with awe. As much as I respect the Imperial Titans with their Void Shields, their DC?s and their rather high Armor rating. So, in the end, every change to them should be thought off very toroughly and playtested - preferably with players that field the standard Lists, to see and hear their judgement. In the year since I began playing with Tau , the first impression of an opponent is the amazing shootyness followed by the expression - You must assault them! So there is a viable way for everyone, they must just discover it! But if you must change it - share your thoughts - You are the Champ.
Cheers!
Steele
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Tactica
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 9:33 pm |
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CS,
while on the other hand imagine if the Imperials suddenly decided that their Titans can carry an entire formation. |
I play the imperials as well...
Although an in development list - the Corvus assault Pod - AMTL may be what you are describing...
they already do carry a formation of h-t-h beating sticks (by tau standards anyway!)... and its only one arm of the warlord or reaver, not even the whole body cavity!
The manta with transport capacity and existing rules in v4.1 has been overpointed to date from playtest. So that's clearly not right. Its just not had enough bang for the buck.
The v4.2.4 Manta changes afford it an offensive bump to make it worth the points and carry the role its supposed to have. Is it the right bump? Playtest to make that call.
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clausewitz
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 1:56 am |
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Yes, I immediately thought of the corvus assault pod when I read the line about Imperial Titans carrying formations 
It actually shone a new light on the Manta for me. I have been a little nervous that it was over-gunned. But when you take into consideration the fact that most other "titans" also provide massive FF platforms, the extra firepower seems justified.
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RedDevil
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Post subject: Orca, love it hate it or don't use it? Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:33 am |
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Something else I was wondering about: Should the twinlinked Burst cannons have an all around arc?
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