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Q's on Tau release?

 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:01 pm 
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Hi!

I emailed SG saying that if for whatever reason none of you could take over the mantle of AC I would do it, but unlike a few of you I have not that many regular opponents, plus I am shepherding the Gue'senshi as well, so my playtest time would be divided between the two armies (of course, there is a crossover beteen the two, but not enough to do justice to the T'au list)

I'd be surprised if neither Tactica nor CyberShadow got it, though - and I'm also surprised Jaldon doesn't seem interested, given his significant efforts in playtesting and feedback!

I don't know how many of you keep an eye on the Battlefleet Gothic boards, but the relative lack of significant involvement between the forum playtesters for the new resin Tau fleet rules - guys such as Xisor have made very significant playtest and rule contributions, only to have the developer seemingly dismiss them out of hand - is all too indicative of what happens when you leave the players with the most interest and most to contribute out of a process which probably wouldn't even be happening had players like them/us not bought the resin models in the first place!

Maybe once we get a new AC we should contact the BFG Tau playtesters and form a Greater Good... I mean, a common front in getting the efforts of each community for these two great and mutually complimentary game systems recognised more widely at SG. Maybe we can also spark the interest of any Tau BFGers who like Epic to help out here and vice versa, I'd like to think I wasn't the only one interested in both incarnations of the Empire!

Gary





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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:11 pm 
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Tactica
I don't have Jervis' email, so unless Andy from fanatic forwards my interest to Jervis, or unless he reads this thread, I don't know that Jervis will know that I'm interested. So CS, you may be just the man for the job. If you are, you'll definitely have my support.


Hehe, I tried to send an Email to jervis.johnson@specialist-games.com to see where this goes.

So it's official, I am En Lice for the greater good of the T'au (altough my mail is not necessarily in the right box for the moment). :p


EDIT: still no undelivered mail returned after several hours. It may be the right mailbox :cool:





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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2005 11:29 pm 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 17 Oct. 2005 (14:16))
Tactica,

I can understand why you would think that being the Tau AC would be a waste of time and effort, but I believe that I can say with some certainty that when GW "officially" cancels it, E:A will survive just as Epic survived under the aegis of NetEpic. If there is enough support, which I believe there is, NetE:A will rise fromk the ashes of E:A. So, from that perspective, any energy expended now on E:A really won't have been wasted in the long run.

I'll be the first to admit that it's easy to feel pessimistic, but do we really need GW to maintain E:A? ??? ?Yes, it would be nice to have Jervis' official stamp of approval, but NetEpic has proven that there are enough talented minds here to continue the development of E:A.

Hi!

I echo DS's comments. I have mentioned this before, I think epic A fans have "shackled" themswelves to tightly to GW/Fanatic as far as rules development and depend on them too much.

If YOU like the game, make army lists for it, playtest it, what do you need GW for?

Seriously, beyond making minis, do you really need them for the rules?

I think not, but I have yet to see a concerted effort from amongst the Epic A fanbase to take "control" over the army list process.

Its quite obvious that thecompany has "ditched" epic. I mean what more proof do we need in light of all the recent and ongoing events?

Netepic proved you dont need GW to maintain and support a set of epic rules.

I'm somewhat amazed more such efforts havent been done.

In the end, only the epic fanbase can support itself. I'd suggest doing it.   :8):

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:47 am 
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I just want to make two points in this thread.

1. Epic A will not die (and has not died!). I wont say much more and but rest assured that this site will be the focus of the game for a long time yet.

2. The involvement of the BFG players is something that I am working on currently. Shortly, these boards will be re-organised to give more space to BFG (without taking away space from Epic) and this will allow more crossover conversation.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:50 pm 
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Quote (primarch @ 18 Oct. 2005 (23:29))
I echo DS's comments. I have mentioned this before, I think epic A fans have "shackled" themswelves to tightly to GW/Fanatic as far as rules development and depend on them too much.

I agree with Primarch on this, especially given the strained resources of the SG team. It seems to me that the more fans develop the rules, the less work required from Jervis and the faster, potentially, that "official" lists will be published online.

Furthermore, having rules completely developed by epic fans will remove the constraints that currently exist due to outside, non-epic, issues, i.e. the 40K development team. I tired of hearing "but that's how it is in 40k, therefore that's how it must be in epic."

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:45 am 
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Quote (Dwarf Supreme @ 19 Oct. 2005 (10:50))
Quote (primarch @ 18 Oct. 2005 (23:29))
I echo DS's comments. I have mentioned this before, I think epic A fans have "shackled" themswelves to tightly to GW/Fanatic as far as rules development and depend on them too much.

I agree with Primarch on this, especially given the strained resources of the SG team. It seems to me that the more fans develop the rules, the less work required from Jervis and the faster, potentially, that "official" lists will be published online.

Furthermore, having rules completely developed by epic fans will remove the constraints that currently exist due to outside, non-epic, issues, i.e. the 40K development team. I tired of hearing "but that's how it is in 40k, therefore that's how it must be in epic."

Hi!

I suppose we make to much sense...  to make sense to them....  :;):

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 7:41 am 
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Quote (CyberShadow @ 18 Oct. 2005 (11:51))
Army Champion - I have emailed Jervis to tell him my position on the Tau Champion. The bottom line is that I would be interested in it, but would need support from the rest of the Epic Tau community. Any AC would draw heavily on the community and no matter who is AC the list is a community effort. This is the way that it should be and I am very happy with this.

Just thought I'd drop my two-penny'orth in here, seeing as you were asking for some info from an AC :)

An AC really has complete freedom on their approach to developing thier list - if they want to play a few games, and make some changes based on what they see, without paying much attention to other playtesters, they can.

If they want to use a small private group of "yes men" to get feedback on their proposed changes, then more general playtesting to see how that works (ignoring feedback as they go), then they can (unfortunately).

And if they want to have the list completely open to discussion, where anyone can chuck an idea into the melting pot, where it'd have to survive on its merits, then they can as well. By the looks of things, all the AC's currently involved with EpiComms, seem to fall under the latter heading.

The AC is essentially Lead Developer on any lists they have control with, submitting updated versions to JJ as and when they feel they are ready. Most of the lists have a vagueish deadline, though some (like the AMTL) are still up in the air - those lists can be submitted as completed as and when the AC is happy with the list.

In theory, the AC can also ask JJ questions if needed, but response time is a little patchy at times.

If y'all have any more questions, then you xenos-lovers just need to yell, y'know?  :alien:

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:21 pm 
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Hey D,

Thanks for the response and way in.

Responses like yours, CS, and others have really added a level of comfort zone I was after on some questions which were rolling around in my mind.

I'm quite relieved that all of the pre-concieved notions I had feared about AC requirements were nothing more than assumptions.

I'm definitely willing to accept AC of the Tau if elected - AND - community support is behind the decision. I can be just as helpful as a playtester if we have a AC that's open to input. It really doesn't matter to me. :) I'm much more interested in a solid Tau list being developed, regardless of who the champion is.

For the record, I embrace healthy public critisism, debates, discussion, ideas, suggestions, and playtest so all can consider the perspectives and hopefully come to a conclusion that benefits the list as a whole. The idea of a private group of yes-men does nothing for the list in question, nor does it do anything for the game. I think I've been rather vocal about such ideas on other boards (heh, even here some time ago). I like the idea of Epic being a 'players' game.

Whoever the Tau champion is (or any champion for that matter!) - I don't want to see that changed. :/  :angry:  :alien:

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 5:51 am 
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You got my vote, "T" ! :8):

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:09 pm 
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A couple things:

>>
Maybe once we get a new AC we should contact the BFG Tau playtesters and form a Greater Good... I mean, a common front in getting the efforts of each community for these two great and mutually complimentary game systems recognised more widely at SG. Maybe we can also spark the interest of any Tau BFGers who like Epic to help out here and vice versa, I'd like to think I wasn't the only one interested in both incarnations of the Empire!
<<

Sorry if I'm a little late on this one, I hadn't been monitoring this thread. So...where is the Tau BFG community? Is it on these boards? I looked around about a week ago and didn't see anything that really stood out to me.

>>
Tau Champion
<<

I have thrown my hat into this ring as well. I know that you have only seen me for a little while, but I had been monitoring discussions since the beginning, but work and hardware issues prevented me from participating...well, work kept me from doing a lot of stuff, but that's another issue... :D

Lest you get overly concerned or perhaps to assure you that I have some idea of how to do this, I was the Warmaster Kislev champion when we took the list from "trial" to "production".

My style is to facilitate discussion both up and down the line, strive to get to a consensus (or as near to that as possible), and take incremental steps until we arrive at "our" solution.

Now when I say "our", I do mean that. However, I also have my own opinions and it would be my job to use the set conditions (i.e. SG framework, and don't underestimate those) and get us where we need to be.

If I was given a chance to lead this effort, I'd want to do something like:

1. Identify the friction points. Now some of that work has already started because the community has opened up threads on things that annoy them and are discussing. That is a good thing as it means that we are a step ahead.

However, we also need to realize that we're not going to go back and re-do the entire list again. I feel that the list is close, but that it needs some tweaking, so we've work to do.

2. Incremental changes. That means that you don't change everything all at once. If all the variables change simultaneously, then there isn't a way to measure the change. That would mean some changes might not arrive for a bit. That's Ok as once we "fix" something, then we can lock it down.

3. Schedule. We'll need one and I'd lay one down and be the task master. That would require a focused effort on everyone's part. Here in Houston, we are re-starting an Epic group (meaning people who have played the other versions before), composed of some of the best players in the area. That would be one focus group, but we'd need more.

That means that we would start using game observations and results vs. opinions like "I think seekers are broke". Also, everyone would have the ability to contribute, however, a greater weight (for the Greater Good ?:p ) would be given towards those who play. That's the only way we can make this work.

So, a lot of words and I haven't the slightest idea if I'll get picked, but that is the kind of "development" shop I would run.



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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 22, 2005 2:41 pm 
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The BFG Tau development is over at http://www.specialist-games.com/forum/f ... FORUM_ID=3 if you are interested!

They are working on the Kor'Vattra Qath'fannor, the Commerce Protection Fleet, ie the resin Tau ships!

Hope to hear more soon on how we'll rope them into coming here though...

Gary

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 Post subject: Q's on Tau release?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 23, 2005 7:13 am 
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I am not really qualified to be the AC for the Tau list, I have never played them in WH40k, only faced the army in 40k once, and never even read their old Codex. Not a glaring background to start working on the list.

Necrons, for me, are even worse as I have never even faced the army once, nobody locally uses them at all.

So instead I would ask JG what how he wanted this or that to work, then go out and bounce the idea around in a few friendly games, and then get the results up on the boards.

Though I get negative about GW and Epic, the truth is I don't believe it is going to go the way of the Dodo anytime soon. But it is also hard not to be negative.

It's sorta like that one spot in your kitchin floor where your sock keeps getting caught, even after you fix it your still waiting for your foot to get caught on it :o0

Jaldon :p

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