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Stomp Tau[Long]

 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:03 pm 
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Quote: (Assariel @ 26 Apr. 2009, 13:39 )

Some questions:

Drones Swarm - 150 points
Gun Drone Upgrade - 100 points

both for 4 drones. Is that supposed to be? But still, for 150 points I wouldn't take them fo what they can do. For 100 maybe.

I dont like the MW FF for the Crisis with the 5+ FF. I still rather not go into an assault with them, if I dont have to, especially with your other rule change to their movement and shooting ability. They can win a FF for sure, happened to me yesterday against a genestealer swarm. But mostly due to the awesome armour save. Of course, with that MW they can get deadlier in an engagement, but I still would not like to initiate it.
But I have to admit it migth be worth testing.

Tigersharks for 175 points? I guess its the same typo as in the 5.0 list it should read 275.

Pathfinder now for 150, but the upgrade costs 100 for two which makes the upgrade a bit pricey in comparison. But I could see this as intended. For now I tend to take the PF upgrade with a FW formation instead of PF on their own.

Thats all what I saw for now.
But the question by Dobbsy seems valid: How many games did you do with 5.1 (or 5.0 at least)?

I stick with 5.1 for now and try to playtest it as much as possible.

I'm still ironing out some of the fimer details, so thanks for all the comments.

Individual drone squadrons were bumped to 150 to avoid popcorning and because it was felt that independant drone squadrons with expendable were too good.  It's like the single warhound price rise.

Drones are useful for dropping from tiger sharks and creating crossfires i think.  I'm still working out the details right now and am amenable to a drop to 125.

Aye, crisis units are designed as a support unit.  Maneuver into position, lay down blast markers and cause some hurt and then provide supporting fire for FWs.  They're a jack of all trades unit.  Apologies, i forgot to raise the movement back to 25 cm, i did intend to.

175 pts is a typo, however there's no way that they're worth 275 pts.  200 pts seems reasonable.

I've had 1 game with 5.1 and to be honest it was terrible.  They don't play how Tau are described as working, don't resemble the 40K army i used to love.  I don't want to waste my time having terrible games with what i view as a poor list when i know i can do better myself and have good games with my group.  I appreciate the irony of ignoring the greater good but i despise the design philosophy of can't do FFs because Jervis said so, a million years ago.  IMO that philosophy has been tried and has failed.


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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 9:07 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ 27 Apr. 2009, 21:03 )

I've had 1 game with 5.1 and to be honest it was terrible.  They don't play how Tau are described as working, don't resemble the 40K army i used to love.  I don't want to waste my time having terrible games with what i view as a poor list when i know i can do better myself and have good games with my group.  I appreciate the irony of ignoring the greater good but i despise the design philosophy of can't do FFs because Jervis said so, a million years ago.  IMO that philosophy has been tried and has failed.

Did you do a battle report?   :))

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 10:55 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 27 Apr. 2009, 14:15 )

Quote: (stompzilla @ 27 Apr. 2009, 23:03 )

Individual drone squadrons were bumped to 150 to avoid popcorning and because it was felt that independant drone squadrons with expendable were too good.  It's like the single warhound price rise.

Formations with only expendable should take BMs normally, so I don't see the problem. I'd like them back as 100 point formations in Tau list.

Quoted for truth.

Independent drone formations got pulled from the 5.0 list because the expendable rule DID apply to the independent drone formations.

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:36 pm 
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But then, it's an additional extra rule in a list full of special rules.  The extra cost simply negates the need for yet more special rules, rules addedums, exceptions etc.


Batrep:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/forums/ ... 84;t=15418


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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:43 pm 
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stompzilla: Expendable is likely to become a universal special rule in the 2009 netERC rules review, including the bit about taking BMs as normal when there are no not expendable units.

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Mon Apr 27, 2009 11:58 pm 
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I've had 1 game with 5.1 and to be honest it was terrible.  They don't play how Tau are described as working, don't resemble the 40K army i used to love.  I don't want to waste my time having terrible games with what i view as a poor list when i know i can do better myself and have good games with my group.  I appreciate the irony of ignoring the greater good but i despise the design philosophy of can't do FFs because Jervis said so, a million years ago.  IMO that philosophy has been tried and has failed


Stomp I think we have to play it as 5.1 so we can show the errors and non-playability. It sucks to lose but we have to show the reasoning for losses. Changing to your own list means while you have more fun, doesn't help argue for change in the 5.1 list. We need more batreps for 5.1 not "my own brand Tau" lists. It seems games come few and far between for some of us so using our own lists doesn't help get the 5.1 list to completion.

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:59 pm 
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I appreciate the irony of ignoring the greater good but i despise the design philosophy of can't do FFs because Jervis said so, a million years ago.  IMO that philosophy has been tried and has failed.


I guess I just have a different perspective on this. Epic type games within the GW umbrella have always gone through cycles. I've been associated with the various forms of "Epic" since it's very first incarnation and all we had to play with were titans.

So Epic comes and Epic goes. JJ really likes this game. The reason that we have seen GW pull back some of it's support is for the simple reason that their cash cows weren't generating any cash. That caused GW to have to focus on their core business lines and make them work. So that's what they are doing and I think doing a very good job of.

In the meantime, the other game systems have been entrusted to a few people to maintain them until GW (i.e. JJ) returns. That doesn't mean toss the whole thing out because the "boss" is away. It means steady operations and if there is a little growth as well, then that's a good thing.

So I have no doubts that JJ will return and that Epic will flourish again. I just don't know when. When he does come back and asks for the keys to his car (figuratively speaking), then I want to be able to give back to him something that is in as good of shape as when he lent it to me. If that doesn't make any sense, then consider it an act of loyalty to the person who entrusted me with the responsibility.

I'm not saying that everyone has to see it with the same perspective that CS and I do, but that is the "why".

Cheers,

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:00 pm 
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Honda: Some of that is bordering on creepy "second coming" metaphors... :p

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:04 pm 
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Very well put, Honda :agree:


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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 5:29 pm 
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Quote: (Honda @ 29 Apr. 2009, 15:59 )

So I have no doubts that JJ will return and that Epic will flourish again. I just don't know when. When he does come back and asks for the keys to his car (figuratively speaking), then I want to be able to give back to him something that is in as good of shape as when he lent it to me. If that doesn't make any sense, then consider it an act of loyalty to the person who entrusted me with the responsibility.

I'm not saying that everyone has to see it with the same perspective that CS and I do, but that is the "why".

Cheers,

I can understand that and its definitely worth trying.
But if the owner used too small tires for his car and you would put biger ones on it, he might actually like the outcome, even if he thought it a good idea in the first place (just to stick with the metaphors  :vD  ).

I mean, if it becomes obvious that this directive is not feasible after testing, I think it would be wrong to insist on it. But, as I said, I am willing to test it until it actually might work.


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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 6:45 pm 
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Honda: Some of that is bordering on creepy "second coming" metaphors...


Well, I didn't intend to go all "Biblical" on ya, though I could, but I do see what you mean.  :))  

Anyway, I don't mind if you think I am obstinate, though I prefer the more politically correct term of "Greek", but at least you know why.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2009 9:08 pm 
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Question: Jervis might not be the head of Epic anymore but had anyone tried to e-mail him about this topic (Tau = artificially weak in FF)?

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:07 am 
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Question: Jervis might not be the head of Epic anymore but had anyone tried to e-mail him about this topic (Tau = artificially weak in FF)?


I like that idea. CS and I shall pursue this thought.

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 Post subject: Stomp Tau[Long]
PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2009 1:32 am 
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Quote: (Honda @ 30 Apr. 2009, 01:07 )

I like that idea. CS and I shall pursue this thought.

Dang... that could be a *game-changer*!!!    :O

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