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V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:57 pm 
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Out of interest, CS, why don't we have the option to change the name? It's not like there's an official model out there, nor (to my knowledge) was it mentioned in IA3 - what's stopping us changing the name?

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:01 am 
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In fact, do we really want the player to be able to mix their individual missiles, rather than a salvo of one type for the turn?


No, we do not want them to mix. They pick a payload type and that is what gets fired.

I'm also curious about the name restriction. I don't mind it as it is, that's just the first time I've ever heard that it was "fixed".

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:37 am 
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So not as a formation of 2 for a slight points drop overall? Having a formation of two does mean you can't max your activations somewhat, gets a slight discount for firepower and allows you to effectively mix your missiles when firing, half and half.

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 7:12 am 
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Quote (Honda @ 17 Mar. 2006 (18:01))
No, we do not want them to mix. They pick a payload type and that is what gets fired.

I'm also curious about the name restriction. I don't mind it as it is, that's just the first time I've ever heard that it was "fixed".

Ditto - What he said.





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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:26 pm 
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Quote (clausewitz @ 13 Mar. 2006 (18:03))
Scorpionfish blurb..
After the shock of facing Imperial Super-heavy tanks in the Damocles crusade and later conflicts, the Tau have been putting considerable effort in developing their own Super-heavy gunships. Lacking any other large vehicle as a basis, the Orca Dropship has been heavily armed and armoured, effectively reducing its mobility down to being a surfacebound skimmer. This variant is called Scorpionfish Missile Gunship and is carrying no less than a full complement of Hunter, Seeker, Tracer and Smart Missiles, as well as the direct-firing Missile Pods. It has no single main weapon, but rather acts as platform for a number of smaller systems, enabling it to engage any type of threat. This kind of flexibility has proven to be a major asset in recent Tau campaigns. It may be a bit slower than the majority of Tau units, but it also has skimmer capabilities, so negotiating difficult terrain normally isn?t an issue. It forms part of the stout firing line at the back of the Tau army, anchoring the defences like a solid rock.

Emphasis mine..

@ dysartes (et al)

I dont have IA3 (yet), but this seems to imply to me that the Scorpionfish is an established part of the FW Tau background (in the same way as the AX-1-0). This gives a fairly comprehensive description of the unit, also naming it. Therefore, we should go with the missile boat idea and stick to the background as described (including name), or drop the concept and create a new unit.

Also, single missle salvoes seems right to me, too.

Thanks.

EDIT: I always assumed that this is IA3... right?
:o0

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 3:25 pm 
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I dont have IA3 (yet), but this seems to imply to me that the Scorpionfish is an established part of the FW Tau background (in the same way as the AX-1-0). This gives a fairly comprehensive description of the unit, also naming it. Therefore, we should go with the missile boat idea and stick to the background as described (including name), or drop the concept and create a new unit.


This fluff was developed by JG as part of the reasoning for the ScF.

Again, not a big deal, as I like the name.



EDIT: I always assumed that this is IA3... right?


Nope. IA3 indirectly refers to "other" heavily armed versions of the Orca, but also state that these versions have not been confirmed.

So, they are keeping their cards close to their vest.

So, if the above is why you thought the name was fixed, then keep in mind, it was fixed here.

Honda "Tau Institutional Memory" Kowabunga     :/

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 8:21 pm 
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In the words of the great philosopher and poet, Homer... "D'Oh"!

Thanks for the recon notes, Honda. This does leave the name open for change...

However, I quite like the name 'Scorpionfish'... Arrowtooth, I dont like. Trident is OK, but I think that it risks breaking the theme. It does relate to the sea, but it is not a fish name and has 'real-world' references...

I dont have a big problem with Scorpionfish right now.

I have a slightly larger problem imagining this thing as an extension of the Orca... but that is a different issue.

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 5:47 am 
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Well, kinda makes sense. The Tau lack combat experience with heavy gunboats outside of the air caste and are expanding rapidly. Since no-one in 40k seems to devolpe tech as fast as we do in the real world (look at WWII) they draw upon historical examples of upgunned and varient vehicles, and it ties nicely into their model making processes as well :)

A good question to ask is if the Orca mode is that easy to convert?

The Tau list though does have the advantage of being able to drop units though. Its got a high count of them compared to other lists and the constant new tech developments make it easier to justify new lists in the future. So if it turns out to be a modeling nightmare or the league against cruel sports objects to the killing fish attitude it encourages it can be dropped :) Course I reckon the chances of that are lower than Epic becoming the 3rd GW system :)

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:06 am 
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Scorpionfish is not part of the established Tau background.

Its a JG invention.

He based it on the Orca because their are no other Tau superheavy size chassis.

The orca could be a skimmer in E:A or a flier.

It was easy enough to convert it into a gun boat in place of the large transport capacity.

The rest - as they say - is history.

Cheers,

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 3:48 am 
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Any pics?

O yes, I really should have checked Jimmy's work!
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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:48 am 
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...and there's a later model that looks better with camo... maybe only the mid paint version is available now. .




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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:35 pm 
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And let's keep in mind that with a vertical launcher, there is no need for extensive conversion, nor would it be extremely obvious at this scale.

I just use the standard Orca model.

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:05 pm 
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I use a conversion very similiar to JG's. reverse mounted 40K crisis missle pods and epic skyray turret. looks very nice actually when modelled.

I'd recommend it.

The spayr skyray body turns into a nice epic devilfish too. ;)

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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:29 pm 
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Since the discussion has moved on from the unit stats I thought we should round off the discussion by deciding on points cost and formation size.

To get the ball rollng I will suggest a formation of 2 for 450 points.

My reasoning for the formation size is to prevent the use as cheap(ish) activations and to make it clearly different from the stingrays.

For the cost I figured that the new stats were slightly more powerful than the previous version, so 25 points more a piece.

How's that? :)


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 Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish
PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:24 pm 
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Cw,

Fine place to start.

I had a problem with the previous points as I could never fit them into my list. Too expensive for the yeild.

I think TRC or somebody mentioned a discount when purchased in twos as the points overall are less flexible.

So if we wanted to entertain

1 @ 225 (Contingent)
2 @ 400 (Cadre)

Then you could also limit the +100 points for SC Dragonfish mod on the Cadre version only.

Doesn't matter to me so much - I'd just like to get something in writing that we could play. Hopefully sooner rather than later.

The guys are getting together Saturday, and I'm hoping to get an Eldar game in with my new eldar and I'm also hoping to try out the new tau v4.4 list...

So - the sooner 'some decision' is made, the better to me. :p

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