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Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
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(Onyx @ May 19 2008,01:57)
QUOTE
(Evil and Chaos @ May 18 2008,20:41)
QUOTE Broadside Suits
4+RA seems too tough on fluff grounds for this unit.
Why is the armour on a Broadside Suit better than that of a Dreadnought?
For that matter, why is the armour save of a single Broadside so much better than a unit (Which represents at minimum 3) of Crisis Suits?
It doesn't balance fluffwise, and feels overly-strong ingame. As has been said they are LV's. They do have the Walker ability though so I always put them in terrain (if possible). I can't really make my mind up on this... What are the stats for the Crisis Suit and Broadsides armour in 40K for comparison?
The only Weapons reasonable capable of killing a Crisis suit other than the basic "make your opponent roll lots of saves, he'll fail eventually" are Anti-Tank weapons like Missile Launchers and Lascannons.
They further tend to have Shield Drones, giving the Squad a couple 4+ Invulnerable saves to bounce those anti-tank shots off of to keep the suits in the fight longer.
Assuming a Crisis Squadron of 3 suits + 2 Shield Drones, it will take 7 Antitank shots to kill every member of the Squadron, and *24* bolter hits** to gun down the squadron through failed saves.
A Broadside trades it's jetpack for heavier armor (Sv2+, equal to a Terminator), and usually operates in a unit by itself with 2 Shield Drones. It takes 5 Lascannon or Meltagun hits to kill a broadside with ranged fire, and *18* Missile hits (assuming no AP2 or AP1 shots forcing me to use the 4+ Invuln instead of the 2+ armor). You need *24* bolter hits** to kill a broadside through failed armor saves.
**bolter hits are assumed to be wounding hits, double this number for raw hits, and add another 50% on top of that for total Marine Equivalents shooting: 72 MEq to kill 5 models (Crisis), 3 models (Broadside)
It takes 7 Lascannon hits to kill a Land Raider or Leman Russ from the front, on average. (1/6 chance of a Pen, 4/6 chance of a kill + 1/6 glance, 1/6 kill = 5/36 chance of a kill on any one shot). You might get lucky and kill it with the first shot, but it will NEVER take less than 3 Lascannons to kill a Broadside with 2 Shield Drones.
(Evil and Chaos @ May 18 2008,20:41)
QUOTE
4+RA seems too tough on fluff grounds for this unit.
Why is the armour on a Broadside Suit better than that of a Dreadnought?
Broadside suits (and Crisis suits, for that matter) have an infantry statline in 40k (and a Broadside can roll a 2+ Armor Save against Missiles!). A Dreadnought is an armor 12-12-10 vehicle (front-side-rear), which means that a lascannon will penetrate 3/6 of it's hits, and kill 3/6 of those hits (9/36 chances to kill, 4 hits almost guarantees a kill). In addition, it will further glance 1/6 of the hits, which has another 1/6 chance of a kill (1/36 chance of a kill, 10/36 chance of a kill total for Glance + Pen).
Stepping down to Missiles, a missile has a 2/6 chance of a Pen, 1/6 glance (9/36 total chance of a kill on a Dreadnought). A missile has a 5/6 chance of wounding, and a 1/6 chance of killing the *First* Shield Drone (5/36 chance of killing the Drone, but doing NO actual damage to the combat effectiveness of the Broadside). The second Shield Drone has another 5/36 chance of dying to a missile, but there's STILL no loss of combat effectiveness if the #2 drone goes down. The Broadside himself has a 5/36 chance of dying to a third missile (a missile is double the Broadside's Toughness, so he dies outright). I don't know enough probability to finish analyzing, except to say that there is absolutely NO way to kill a broadside with less than 3 shots, while there's almost a 1/3 chance of killing a dread with ONE shot.
Does this bit of Math-hammer answer your question? [/teacher mode]
(not trying to be rude here, honest, but it sure reads that way)
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