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Test Game Tonight

 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:28 am 
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Just to point out you may not be able to see much difference with hammerheads on increased AT vs 4+RA tanks. For example your chance to kill a russ when doubling with a base AT3+ weapon and its lit is 12/72. With base AT4+ it is 9/72.

To shoot up say Chimera you are looking at the AT3+ getting 32/72 of a kill and AT4+ getting 24/72.

In both cases AT3+ is I think 33% better than AT4+ (my maths is hazy there). That is not that inconsequential.

And remember also in both these examples that is a massive move, with a pop-up and massive range! Advance is obviously a bit better :)


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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:38 am 
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The thing to bear in mind is that because of the non-linear scaling of reinforced armour, leman russ are a little tougher in epic than they are in 40k or in the background, so not being able to kill them easily is not a reason to up the power of a weapon. The problem is with the russ, not the railgun.


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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:08 am 
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Indeed, I find it helps to think of RA4+ as '2.5+' (i.e. somewhere between 3+ and 2+). Which is heaps better than 4+.

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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:55 am 
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@ Everyone - The increase is not inconsequential but also not unjustified. Only two games, open for more but still. They haven't been lords over all other tanks. Instead, they are comparable to Broadsides. Competitive, even.

They fill two very different niches within the Tau army. With AT3+ on both, you now have to weigh them based on those niches rather than the one place they overlap, which is AT. Personally, they both have the same 'weight' to me, on that basis. For example, if I had been using double hammerheads against Doom, the Storm trooper advance into the city would've been unopposed and I would have had to commit my large Fire Warrior squad earlier than I wanted. Similarly, if I had been using double Broadsides, I would have had less ability to delay the Leman Russ company (although, more resilience may have balanced it out) as I couldn't have hidden from (most) of the Leman Russ company that first turn, forcing him to double to get what shots he got.

Double Hammerheads would've been a very aggressive stance, I could have attacked the infantry sooner, advanced onto him and got away from the Leman Russ company. Or called a Coordinated Fire with a Recon and got them in a crossfire. Mobility.

Or double Broadsides. I set my spear in the ground on the two chosen Take and Hold objectives and dare him to run into 12 O/W broadsides to stop me, and taking it on the chin with whatever he fires with. Of course both would also make me change the army up a bit as a whole, but still. Even if both have the same AT, there is still enough in favor of each that each can be built around. Or at least, enough that each player that goes all in for one or the other to think "Man, I wish I had X about now."

That's my opinion looking at it and kind of mentally going through how things might play out. Now I'm testing it. I haven't seen anything major that suddenly makes me want to go all hammerheads. Well, except for the fact my Apocalypse army had 12 Hammerheads once.

As it turns out, I should've brought Broadsides. Go figure.


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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 11:05 am 
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@professorcurly: I agree the change to HH primary weapons should be done. But I think they should not cost more than broadsides. On using them for crossfires I would be very hesitant to do so as you give up one of the strengths of the Tau list i.e range. You often have to expose yourself to engagements by attempting to crossfire something.


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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:03 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 1:15 pm 
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Jstr19 wrote:
On using them for crossfires I would be very hesitant to do so as you give up one of the strengths of the Tau list i.e range. You often have to expose yourself to engagements by attempting to crossfire something.

I've done it quite often and it has been effective (especially when the Guard player gets overconfident with his Russ').
The Tau player certainly has to pick the right time and place but it is a very useful tactic that should not be discounted just because it puts you closer to the enemy.

It's also a good reason why you don't want your Hammerheads as your BTS. It frees them up to do this sort of thing.

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 Post subject: Re: Test Game Tonight
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:53 pm 
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@ Jstr - I think they are balanced with Broadsides and should cost the same too. I was charging more for them to see if I still thought "man I wish I had more hammerheads instead of Broadsides" at 350. I haven't, so I'm going to drop them down to 300pts and see how that goes.

End of the day, the only thing that really 'changes' to the list I'm using is I can end up with a Supreme Commander with a bit of point jiggling.


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