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Forgeworld's Marauder stats
Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:02 pm 
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Since I'm not sure how many of you have (or have seen) IA3, I thought I'd share FW's stats for the Marauder and Destroyer.

The basic chassis is a 2DC, 6+ armor, 'bang, you're dead' critical, bomber.

Don't die from a heart attack, now.

Sitting down?

The Marauder Destroyer has 4(?) AT4+ one-shot Hellstrikes under the wings, and 2BP one-shot bomb-bay payload.

The Marauder has 4 BP one-shot in the bombbay, and another 4BP one-shot under the wings.  That's 8BP total, per bird.  Who cares if it's one shot.

Anyone want to playtest these monsters?  :devil:

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dysartes
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:07 pm 
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Lion - I haven't seen the stats yet myself, but if the pirce was kept as it is in the current list, would you say the FW stats or the AMTL stats looked more balanced?

Is the 8BP-per-bird line referring to the regular Marauder?

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 12:20 am 
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Yes, that's 8BP per single, standard Marauder. ?'Uge Ork mob? ?What 'Uge Ork mob? ?

At least you could get two 4bp passes out of one.

I'm torn between the two Marauder Destroyers.  Yours is a bit tougher (5+), but otherwise the stats are pretty much the same.  It's a tough call.

The standard Maruaders are just sick and wrong, though.  Nothing should have that much firepower, even at 225 points a unit.  That's more firepower than my proposed Starhawk Bombers.  I'm pretty sure that 8BP will kill a Warlord.




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Legion 4
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 6:32 am 
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Aren't the stats in the E:A rules ?  In the collector's section ?

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 2:13 pm 
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I'm pretty sure that 8BP will kill a Warlord.

Will it?  4 hits of 5+ each, no MW or TK.  Unless the Warlord is on its last legs its unlikely to die from that.  (Aircraft BPs don't benefit from a sustained fire bonus, so they are a little less potent).

However, 8BP does seem a bit high for one unit (at least from a non-titan).  Ork mobs, due to the number of units, are naturally more vulnerable to barrages.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 7:50 pm 
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L4, the Collector's stats assume the 'Fighter-bomber' size mini from back in the day, with the FW monsters' firepower.

clausewitz:  only 4 at5+ hits?  I thought a WE took additional hits for being under the template equal to the starting DC?  That'd be 12 AT5+ hits.  OK, so that's only 4 hits, probably 1 getting through the 4+RA.  Two will ruin a warlord's day, the first one would at least strip the void shields, and the second will do some damage.  Ork mobs will cease to exist under that kind of firepower.  'OK, for my 2700 point IG army, I'm bringing a formation of 2 Marauders and 2 formations of Thunderbolts.'  That should break any Ork mob, if not destroy them outright.  That'd really mess up any eldar force (assuming they survived the flak).  Remember, this is a formation of 1-2.  16BP in a formation that's 450 points?  Lock and Load, boys, we're going to bag us some bugs!

I still stand by my statement of the standard Marauder being a broken 'eggshell armed with a sledgehammer'.  

It's a toss-up with the Destroyer.  The chassis is so fragile, but it carries an awful lot of firepower.  tough to balance well.  If it survives, it'll raise (un)holy hell, but it probably won't survive any air defenses.

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dptdexys
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:17 pm 
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The rules for a barrage attack on a War engine/Titan are

If the center ?hole on the template is over the War engine/Titan then you get half the DC rounding up in attacks note these are not hits but have to be rolled for.

If the temoplate only partially covers the War engine/Titan (the center hole misses the target)then you only get 1 attack.

So a Warlord attacked by a Barrage of any size would be attacked(not auto hit) by 1 or 4 d6 rolls depending on the centering of the barrage template.

There are no references in the rule book to any auto hits on titans attacked by barrages or to them recieving hits to their full DC.
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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2005 8:59 pm 
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Oops.  Well, back to the rulebook for me, then. *whipcrack*  Well, that just makes it sub-optimal for beating down a Titan.  Any non-WE formation is going to pray it has air cover or AA guns against that much incoming firepower.

I still think that 16BP is just gross.  While it might be right, as far as how powerful aircraft really are, it's not balanced with the current IN/Ork/Eldar aircraft.  (Granted, this was also in a section about bringing aircraft up to their 'real' effectiveness, not the nerfed levels they were at for game balance.  Y'all do NOT want to see the 40k stats.)  Maybe if we could get away with a large powerboost to the published aircraft, to bring them in line with the FW 40k stuff, it'd work, but I just do not see that happening now.  

The Destroyer is really hard to balance, too.  If it gets through your air defense, you're going to be in a world of hurt, but it dies awfully easy!

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 2:20 am 
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Lion, you are correct (IMO) that those stats are OTT.  My point was that standard BP will at best remove a few shields or score the odd hit on a Warlord (But I see that confusion has been cleared up already).

Balancing with existing air assets is essential for any new units.  And I whole-heartedly agree that we do not want to go boosting all the existing aircraft.
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Legion 4
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2005 5:56 am 
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I may have review the stats further ... but I don't remember it being a problem ...  :;):

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 1:05 pm 
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8BP per Marauder seems alot..but hey are One-Shot! One attack-run with 16BP (2 Marauders) and the formation is useless. This means 1 broken formation..buit what?it can rally and beuseful again...but the Marauders can't do nothing from this point on.
Same for the Marauder Destroyer. Big palyoad...but if it has shot all its weapons it is useless too.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 4:28 pm 
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BlackLegion, the stats might not be too bad.  However, IMO, they aren't in line with the way the current aircraft are modelled.  And those stats, again IMO, would be unlikely to be make a GT list.
Thats just my opinions, perhaps others will disagree with me.
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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 6:23 pm 
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Well, the Destroyer doesn't scare me that badly, although it's effectiveness drops rapidly after the first pass.  In fact, I think the FW Destroyer isn't (quite) worth 225 points due to it's fragility.

The FW standard Marauders can make two passes per aircraft (if it survives the flak), at 4BP/bird, or pound the bejesus out of one non-WE formation.  

The FW stats are based on the 40k models, actually.  There was also a large batch of different fighters and Vulture/Valkyrie.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:24 pm 
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225pts per Marauder or for a formation of two?

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Forgeworld's Marauder stats
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:45 pm 
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That's per Destroyer, assuming that they were the same price as the ones in the AMTL list.  I think that ~175 to 200 is more in line for the Destroyer.

The problem is that they're so fragile, they're hard to balance.  IF they survive the flak, they're going to flatten just about any formation.  OTOH, a 50-point Skyray could kill one, and break the Formation.  A Hydra Battery would eat a pair of Marauders, and even a single Hydra might get lucky.

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