Tactical Command
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AMTL Power Level Poll
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31664		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Vaaish [ Sat Oct 01, 2016 1:35 am ]
Post subject:  AMTL Power Level Poll
Since I put up 3.24, I'm curious how it's fared with the various gaming groups. My general feeling is that the list is a touch underpowered right now and has a very hard time winning especially against high activation count armies. Let me know if and what you guys think would change in the list below!

The poll will run for the next week.
Author:  Vaaish [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Thanks for answering folks. Could those who chose "Other" and "Underpowered" explain a bit about why they feel that way?
Author:  atension [ Sat Oct 08, 2016 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
It struggles mainly because of low activation count and performs poorly against highly mobile forces. A good assault centric unit with some supporting fire can usually stomp a reaver. Even keeping them close, being WE they block line of sight to each other, your opponent can out maneuver you and then you get no supporting fire. Their firepower is often underwhelming as you are forced to double most activations unless you are spending a ton for a CLP and BP weapons. I play against mostly speed freaks, eldar, Squats and IG. I get ruined often with the titans.
Author:  junkstar [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Its becomming underpowered now in comparison to other armies that have replaced their weakness with special rules or just threw more dice @ it IOT make them zerg and unenjoyable to play against.

Low activations are an issue including points cost (single weapon surcharges for example), compared to the Stompa Mob costs and their plethera of dice, special rules, and possible weapon upgrades - why play amtl anymore?

for example - All non-Gargant formations within 15cm of the Gargant may add the DC of the Gargant to
their formation size when using the ”Mob Rule” special rule. So automatically CC is now pointless. Which negates how many loadouts for amtl?

The game relies on a certain degree of tactics & lucky dice rolls - some armies are removing that by the rules. If I fire a Deathstrike get 2 hits but roll ones on the D3- I accept that - I dont play test/change its weakness till the 1's counts as 6's.

Only way to overcome the zerg is a buff perhaps inclusion of all additional load outs ie Corvus Head, wrecking ball etc etc - but where will it end? price reduction? free upgrades that dont take up a valuable carapace slot?
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Umm that's not how the Ork Mob Rule actually work. A WE is DC units IN a formation, not with other formations in a range getting a buff - that or your wording is odd and I am not understanding what you're actually meaning and if so, apologies and please clarify.

Also since that's a rule from the initial release of EA your claim of "replacing weakness with special rules" is spurious as it's one of the original 3 and hasn't been "buffed". In fact as one of the OG list rukles, it's the standard upon which we use to gugage any creep. Perhaps you're discussing actually one of the Ork variants under dev that has a tweak to the base rule (I can't say I'm up on all the sub variants like the Deathskullz or Sun-Tzork). However if that's the case it would lead me to say then that list would be the issue and not AMTL per say, and is likely why they're not approved yet (and good on ya for keeping that on our minds though can't really be used to say if an approved list is too weak-just that the other may be OP instead).

I'm with JS in that I too would I'd like to see more of those other weapons tried out in subsequent releases for tournament inclusion. Centerfire cannons, rubble claws getting CC buffs and being free (seriously, the speed hit is enough), wrecking ball, etc getting some wide validation for movement out of the Collectors section. Unfortunately as it's fairly fringe list (not a knock, just not that people have spent too much time building their titan forces up I suspect) it's not got enough wide range of tournament circuit peculation and metas and tactics are still adjusting I would hazard. Having only taken them out for a couple of games I don't have too much to chew on but get the gut feel they're middle of the road.

So in short, probably some tweaks here and there (more options and flexibility) but not hamstrung in that hands of a competent player. I do think they're more ill suited for the TP scenario than other lists but that's true of any "extreme" theme list in general and there's little more extreme than 5 titans on a table! :D.
Author:  junkstar [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
jimmyzimms wrote:
Umm that's not how the Ork Mob Rule actually work. A WE is DC units IN a formation, not with other formations in a range getting a buff - that or your wording is odd and I am not understanding what you're actually meaning and if so, apologies and please clarify.


sorry its under the kustom upgrades head of Mork/Gork - so in a combined assault will it be mob DC+Gargant DC+ the actual Gargant DC again? all for 25 points
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Ahhh but that's a dev list and not really cogent to the discussion of AMTL power here. That just means that the gargent list is OP.

Thanks for clarifying! That does seem rather cheap upgrade
Author:  Vaaish [ Sun Oct 09, 2016 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Thanks for replying!

I think the activation game is a tough one for AMTL especially since we can't give them adequate firepower to off set it because people don't like seeing formations evaporate in a single round of shooting. There's no really good solution to this either.

However, I would be very wary of comparisons to unapproved lists. We shouldn't and aren't going to make AMTL stronger to offset unapproved lists. If anything that's just a sign that the other list needs to be adjusted prior to being approved.

As far as point tweaks to AMTL goes, I think we could look into adjusting the prices of some chassises and I wouldn't mind seeing some of the collectors weapons come back into the list as limited upgrades or something.
Author:  PFE200 [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 4:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
I would like to see the Skitarii Demi-Century been added without the need to buy the Corvus Assault Pod....If you take the Corvus Assault Pod, it means the Skitarii Demi-Century, gets transport with titan, otherwise it walks everywhere…. If the above is done then the Skitarii Demi-Century should not be allowed to garrison…..

Vaaish wrote:
As far as point tweaks to AMTL goes, I think we could look into adjusting the prices of some chassises and I wouldn't mind seeing some of the collectors weapons come back into the list as limited upgrades or something.


+1 to the above...
Author:  mordoten [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
jimmyzimms wrote:
Ahhh but that's a dev list and not really cogent to the discussion of AMTL power here. That just means that the gargent list is OP.

Thanks for clarifying! That does seem rather cheap upgrade


That is only for rallying purposes which is the only time you use the "mob rule". How is that overpowered?
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
IDK. You should probably take that up with junkstar, no? I just think that's mighty good for 25 points in a super low activation army where individually flubbing an activation may swing the battle. Let's not cock up the topic here though...
Author:  GrimDarkBits [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
I've only recently finished painting enough models to play a single 3000 point game with my Titan legion. Took on a Necron list for a narrow loss (Aeonic Orb is ridiculously powerful).

The AMTL feels slow, it's damage output is underwhelming (eapecially using the standard weapon upgrades that come on the metal Lucius pattern warlord), and it gets easily outmaneuvered and out-activated.

That being said, the game was still fairly close. Just frustrating as the titan player. The titans themselves may be underpowered, or maybe not. I'll leave that to more experienced players.

My biggest complaint though, and it was obvious to my opponent and I even after one game - Crusader robot maniples are absolutely worthless formations. For the points they aren't durable in the slightest and will never make use of their expensive CC ability. I don't understand why their armor save is so poor. They make a terrible screening unit, and a decent throwaway activation only as long as you can keep them alive. It could be that I don't know how to use them properly, and I'd welcome pointers, but I think they're a dud.

I really like the suggestion to purchase skitarii infantry on foot. It's perfectly fluffy, and if we're going to have stands that are are as vulnerable as the Crusader robots, I'd rather have more of them for a proper screen.

I'd like to see the robots revisited. The existing Crusader robots are simply overpriced. I think they're an easy kill at range and an even easier kill in an assault (making their FF and CC weapons rather pointless). If the point of the unit is to pick up an activation and have the enemy ignore them, I'd rather not pay extra for it.

I'd also like to see a Kastelan robot maniple as well since the models are out there (that's what I have anyway). A higher armor save, lower movement speed, loss of Scout, and better ranged weaponry would be nice. They might be more deserving of the 150 point cost if they can take a few hits before folding.
Author:  Matty_C [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
+1 for the infantry on foot option.
Titan guard are back in the most recent narrative from games workshop too if that matters to anyone.

Secutarii
Author:  Vaaish [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
Thanks for the response folks!

Quote:
I'd like to see the robots revisited. The existing Crusader robots are simply overpriced. I think they're an easy kill at range and an even easier kill in an assault (making their FF and CC weapons rather pointless). If the point of the unit is to pick up an activation and have the enemy ignore them, I'd rather not pay extra for it.


I've used the crusaders extensively and seen them used quite often against a variety of lists. I'm just not seeing results like what you're mentioning. Are you using the Automaton rules with them? Crusaders are very fast scout units that are great at screening titans from assaults and they are far harder to kill than Sentinels with much more capable assault and ranged weapons. Give them a few more games before you count them out.
Author:  Markconz [ Mon Oct 10, 2016 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: AMTL Power Level Poll
I didn't vote as didn't see poll in time, but in my experience I don't see it as very competitive compared to other lists. Low activations, underwhelming firepower for the points on larger titans. This has been my experience vs Tau, Eldar, Marines at any rate.
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