Tactical Command
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Knight World list theme
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=26894		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Dave [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Knight World list theme
I PMed Vaaish last week asking if I could take over development of the Knight list. He talked to Carlos and they're both alright with it. Before I start up some discussion threads about stats/rules/the list, I wanted to see what people thought about its overall theme.

When it started, the list was more a Knight/Siegemaster combination. It represented a force defending its home with the Knights serving as the mainstay supported by low-tech infantry and field artillery. Now, the list still has the knights and some remnants of the low-tech infantry, plus Titans. Sort of a combination of the above and what a Knight army would have will on crusade with a Titan Legion.

My question is what would people prefer?

A Knight PDF list (Knights, Infantry, Rough Riders, Field Arty/AA, allied aircraft)
A Knight Crusade list (Knights and allied tech-guard, aircraft and titans)

I'm also interested in seeing what people have in their collection, to get an idea of formation sizes. How many:

Paladins
Errants
Lancers
Crusaders
Castallans
Wardens
Author:  Armiger84 [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
I'd be interested in seeing more of a Knight PDF list. As far as I can tell, in M41 Knights are mostly used defensively to guard forge worlds and their vassal planets. Incorporating Knights into a Crusade-style game wouldn't be too hard to do (outside of a tournament scenario anyway) by playing a lower points cost game with multiple players or army lists to get Knights & Titans, or Knights & (Tech) Guard, or early Crusade-era Knights & SM Legions.

One of my biggest complaints with the current list is the struggle between having sufficient activations to avoid getting out-manuevered while having large enough formations with enough wounds to soak incoming fire and not spend turn 2+ desperately trying to rally broken formations as a primary game strategy.

Going back to having forward-deployed infantry and artillery/AA assets garrisoned around objectives would potentially shift the army toward playing more like WFB Bretonnians with blocks of cheap delaying troops to pin down opponents long enough for the heavy cavalry to maneuver and charge. That's just my $0.02.

As for collection:
Baron: 1
Paladins: 12
Errants: 6
Lancers: 6
Crusaders: 3 (would love to double that and get one team a prayer of lasting to turn 2-3. Honestly, Castellans would be preferable; the army has plenty of AT but is really low on AP firepower, and often the fast-moving strikers who can take out artillery knights tends to be light vehicles, jump infantry, and deep striking/air assault heavy infantry, not armor)
Wardens: 6 (mostly because I've been going off of the AA variant to try to provide some sort of a coverage bubble against bombers and ground-attack fighters)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
I'd like to see the PDF list finished, rather than a new list started, for reasons.
Author:  Koshi [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
PDF list first. Like it.

As for Collection:
10 Lancers
Author:  wargame_insomniac [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
So far have read roughly half if the Horus Heresy nivels. So the only novel to feature Knights so far is Mechanicum. There they are just defending the forge from the Dark Mechanicus. So a PDF defensive force plus Knights works perfectly fine.

One thing to flag. The rumour is that Knights are going to ge reintroduced into W40K in the next couple of months. This will be the first time in years that Knights are featured other than mention in one novel.

Cheers

James
Author:  DaR [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
My primary request is that whatever list is chosen for first development is that it be capable of stand alone Knight action. Which is to say, it should be structured such that you can field nothing but Knights and have at least a reasonable game.

Right now the Knightworld list variants are one of the few that don't even offer the option to field INF based formations, which I think is both unique and interesting from a list design standpoint. I'd prefer to avoid tacking on half the Steel Legion Support formations to it. Infantry should be very sparingly added, if at all. I'd be more inclined to see the sentinel/squire options expanded for that role, or possibly even replacing the existing artillery type units. The Cadian, Elysian, Harakoni and Catachan lists all have some interesting variations on the basic sentinel. The Harakoni Support Sentinel seems like a good basis to replace the Trebuchet, for instance.

In general, I'm reasonably happy with the 1.4-beta version that Carlos posted, and would be fine if the loose ends were tidied up and called good. I'm also fine with removing or reducing the availability of Titans if people feel they're not on theme (though I personally wouldn't mind if at least the warhound stuck around, as they serve nicely as a sort of Super Baron).

As for actual models at the moment I actually have only a few random plastic Paladins I picked up in assorted ebay lots. But I've been looking at the idea of using 15mm walkers as proxies, in particular from the Ion Age line: http://theionage.com/products/iaf030b1- ... bundle-one and http://theionage.com/products/iaf020-ha ... battlesuit as Paladin/Errant/Lancers and Castellan/Crusader/Barons respectively.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Feb 10, 2014 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
Dave wrote:
My question is what would people prefer?

A Knight PDF list (Knights, Infantry, Rough Riders, Field Arty/AA, allied aircraft)
A Knight Crusade list (Knights and allied tech-guard, aircraft and titans)

I'd like to see both lists, but prefer to see a PDF list completed first.
Author:  mordoten [ Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
PDF is the most interesting

My knights:

12 lancers
12 Palladins
6 Crusaders
6 Castellans
12 Errants
1 Baron
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
Dave wrote:
My question is what would people prefer?

A Knight PDF list (Knights, Infantry, Rough Riders, Field Arty/AA, allied aircraft)
A Knight Crusade list (Knights and allied tech-guard, aircraft and titans)

Neither of those are a direction I like the sound of.

I preferred the approach back when Morgan Venig ran the list when it has knights supported by peasants (with sentinels, trebuchets/balistas), fighter aircraft and titans. It had a good theme of walking AV and WE and was different in not having infantry at all (with walking vehicles it doesn't necessarily need it. I'm not familiar with the current list(s).

I have roughly 6 Paladins and 3 or 4 of all the other typess.
Author:  Dave [ Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
So that's 5 for the PDF, 2 for the Crusade, an abstention and a neither. Anyone else have thoughts?
Author:  Markconz [ Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
Interested in both, and also think its important to include some infantry as suggested for scale purposes and as means to take built up areas.

Probably the first one might be useful to focus on, as once the basic units are right swapping in some titans shouldn't be as difficult.

As to minis.

Old GW:
1 Baron
12 Paladin
6 (or maybe 12?!) Errants
6 Lancers
3 Castellan
3 Crusader

Plus I'll be doing "Knight" list with Dark Realm Andrayada Walkers too probably.
Author:  GlynG [ Tue Feb 11, 2014 7:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Knight World list theme
The existing list is interesting and unique and thematically in having no infantry (hasn't had any for 3-4 years now) and multiple people have said they like it. What's the motivation for wanting to add infantry Dave? Walking vehicles can be in ruins and woods easily enough and not being able to be in buildings is a limitation of the list, just like it is with all vehicle Minervan list. The idea of the sentinels in the list is that they are in training, in the hope of way piloting a knightsuit, if fits with the theme where Rough Riders for example don't.

I've had a quick look at the current list now and it's still as I would want it. I'd really like to see it stay and just be tweaked as needed and finished. Don't waste all the development and playtesting that has been done on it!

If you really want to make a knights + tech guard + titans list (or your IG pdf + knights suggestion) do that as well but as a separate list, just keep the knight stats consistent between the two.

I don't see any need to remove titans from a knightworld list, titans could ally with them just as easily as other branches of the Imperium. In fact it's even more likely they'd send titans to protect the knightworld as knights get sent to aid the AM too so they presumably look out for each other.
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