Tactical Command
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Playtest Changes
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=25867		 Page 4 of 9
Author:  mordoten [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 9:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
I'm all for decreasing cost of titans and/or weapons a little.

Uppgunning some weapons could work to (still very opposed to the CLP change).
Author:  Vaaish [ Tue Jan 07, 2014 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Mordoten, can you move the last part of your post to the Thoughts on the future of AMTL thread? I don't want folks getting confused and thinking some of the thoughts from that thread are up for playtest.

Thanks!
Author:  Vaaish [ Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Added the point and formation size change for forge knights:

5x Forge Knights for 225 points

Hopefully this adds a bit more variety in the support slots and some competition with warhounds.
Author:  Vaaish [ Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
A couple of name changes to match what we've been discussing in the AdMech naming conventions thread.

Also made a change to the Chimedon upgrade. It makes little sense to purchase these individually when the two formations capable of using them are fixed to 10 stands so the update lumps the entire transport upgrade into a single price. This also lets us have greater flexibility with pricing a mechanized skitarii formation. Since the upgrade is almost prohibitively expensive due to the single transport slot in each chimedon, I've started the cost at 200 points rather than 250 under the old system. This places the cost between an IG Regimental HQ and Mechanized Infantry Company which I think is a fair price point for a similarly sized but more durable formation.
Author:  Vaaish [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
added a few more renamed units to standardize the naming across all AdMech lists.

Things I'm currently watching or thinking over:

AMTL: Forge Knights increased to 250 points
AMTL: Skitarii demi-century increased to 200 points, possibly no discount at all.
Plasma Cannon: slight boost to 4 shots.
Plasma Destructor: boost to 6 shots.
Ark Mechanicus: increased to 200 points.
Author:  Koshi [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Forge Knights for 250, yes, that's the way, IMO, 200 for Skitarii? Why that? The boost of Plasma Weapons is well-received by me, also the Ark changes.
Author:  Vaaish [ Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
The change for skitarii is mainly because it kills the ability to really spam the skitarii in AMTL. At 100 points, you can get a reaver and three skitarii demi-centuries for 900 points. The same thing would cost upwards to 1200 points in the skitarii list. Titan lists should be focusing on titans not infantry. I'm not even sure the skitarii need a discount, they are pretty tough troops and the loss of a hardpoint to get 10 stands is a pretty good trade off.
Author:  mordoten [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
But aren't the Skitarii a support formation in the AMTL list and therefor bound by the 1 support formation per titan restriction?
Author:  Vaaish [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 6:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Yes, but you get support slots with warhounds too. Not saying you can max out all your reavers with corvus, just it opens up some potentially abusive lists that aren't really thematically correct for titans.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 5:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Perhaps only Battle Titans should unlock support slots?
Author:  Vaaish [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
That is a thought. It seems to me that would basically kill folks taking anything outside of thunderbolts and sentinels though. I don't think that kind of restriction will be necessary though. There's far less impact to the list to just adjust prices a bit on the Skitarii, Forge Knights, and Ark.
Author:  jimmyzimms [ Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Warhounds are intrinsically beneficial and worth taking irrespective of their ability to unlock support slots. In fact I fail to see how only battle titans would make sentinels even more attractive. You've got a realistically max number of battle titans you can fit in considering your points sink each represents. Actually new that I think of it, you're going to be forced to take warhounds just to fill out your points due to the fact that your support slots would be more restrictive and the battle titans even more the focus. OTOH warhounds may now be even more prevalent so yeah, YMMV
Author:  GlynG [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Vaaish wrote:
AMTL: Forge Knights increased to 250 points
AMTL: Skitarii demi-century increased to 200 points, possibly no discount at all.
Plasma Cannon: slight boost to 4 shots.
Plasma Destructor: boost to 6 shots.
Ark Mechanicus: increased to 200 points.


I suggest no infiltrate or reinforced armour, 25cm move for 200 or 225 points.
A Warlord with 4 Plasma Destructors would on average shooting hit with 20MW shots at range 75cm (!). That would be enough to wipe out most enemy BTSes. A 6 shot Plasma Destructor would have more shots than an Imperator's Plasma Anhilator and this seems very wrong (yes I know the PA has TKD3 but this is only relevent for WE). Why not make a smaller change and make the Destructor range 90cm like Epic-UK did? 4 shot PC would seem very good for 25 points, if you did this I would suggest making it 60cm MW3+ for 25.
Skitiarii should be 200 points, that's much more reasonable price. They should be a bit less than normal as you miss out on the titan gun.
You're starting to see sense on the Ark, but 200 is still out of line with the other spaceships in the game and too good. In my game vs IG it killed 400 points worth and put blast markers on two other units. It turned what would likely have been a defeat vs 3 Shadowswords into a victory. For what it can potentially to an opponent (with no comeback or way to avoid it) it should be a minimum of 250, probably 275.

I like the idea of making support formations 0-1 per battle titan. It focuses the list on titans more (it is the titan legion list, leave the more mixed armies for other AM lists) and reduces the number of activations in the army, which I have long complained about as being unbalanced. The Epic-UK TL is even more limited with activation numbers than this would be and does fine. I'd still use the other support formations too, Sentinels may be cheap but they die very easily.
Author:  mordoten [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
I disagree with making support slots 0-1 per battle titan.

Has anyone who actually played with or against the list in the ladt year voiced any objections against the way the list is organized?

Focus on the weapon changes and unit costs, thoose are minor changes for the list. It's time to get this thing approved.
Author:  Vaaish [ Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Playtest Changes
Forge Knight stats will not be changing. Price, maybe up to 275 but I have my doubts that folks would choose a 275 point Forge Knight formation over another warhound.

A warlord with 4x destructors clocks in around 1,025 points. That's not exactly what you'd call cheap. Anyway, the problem I'm having with plasma is that next to other options it doesn't seem to compare all that favorably due to slow firing. Battle titans are too expensive to have sitting around unable to fire for a turn.

On the Ark, it's just too conditional. In my game it literally did nothing and against most savvy players I'd wager that the template wouldn't be hugely effective most of the time. We could just add to the notes that it can't come in turn 1 to prevent drop zone bombardments.

List organization will not be changing. Limiting support slots to just battle titans pretty much ensures that the only things taken are cheap reavers to open enough slots for thunderbolts and maybe sentinels. It's really not a problem here nor is it within the scope of getting this list approved.
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